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Sunday, April 21, 2013

So much to learn

Jared Diamond, the great prophet of geographical destiny, tells the West that it has much to learn from the tribal people of Papua New Guinea
""I believe the few remaining tribes and nomad groups left on the planet have a great deal to teach us," he says and it is this belief that inspired The World Until Yesterday.  Some tribal customs, such as widow-strangling, will not be missed, of course. "We should not romanticise traditional societies," he says. "There are horrible things that we want to avoid, but there wonderful things that we should emulate."

Take the example of child rearing. Far from being harsh towards children, many tribes and groups adopt highly permissive attitudes. "I mean permissive in that it is an absolute no-no to punish a child. If a mother or father among African pygmies hits a child, that would be grounds for divorce. There is no physical punishment allowed at all in these societies. If a child plays with a sharp knife and waves it around, so be it. They will cut themselves on some occasions, but society figures it is better for the child to learn the hard way early in life. They are allowed to make their own choices and follow their own interests.""
I consider his theses to be absolutely absurd, but then again, there may be something to be said for the wise people of Papua New Guinea's vigorous response to U.S. academics.

"A U.S. academic has been gang raped in Papua New Guinea by nine armed men who hacked off her blonde hair and left her husband tied naked to a tree. The 32-year-old woman, who was conducting research into exotic birds in a remote forest on Karkar Island, was walking along a bush track with her husband and a guide on Friday when they were set upon by the gang armed with knives and rifles. Her husband and the guide were stripped and bound by the men, who then used a bush knife to hack off the woman's hair before raping her in a terrifying ordeal lasting 20 minutes."

It would certainly make the average East Coast cocktail party more lively if the sort of overeducated midwits who take Diamond at face value were to follow the example of the noble people of Papua New Guinea in this regard.

Now, I realize that many doubt my thesis that most of the desirable tenets of Christian civilization will not survive in post-Christian society, but note that in Diamond, we already have a well-regarded, much-honored academic overtly advocating a return to many pagan, pre-civilized customs. But it never seems to occur to those who eagerly anticipate Western post-Christianity that those raised in a pagan society without Christian customs and strictures will not necessarily retain the civilized customs that are inculcated in the secularist or pagan raised in a Christian society.

It is easy to say, well, we'll keep the Western strictures against widow-strangling, witch-burning, and academic-raping, we'll just toss the ones against homosexual-marrying, public fornication, polygamy, and letting children play with loaded guns... wait a minute! The brutal reality is that a society in which most children are "allowed to make their own choices and follow their own interests" is a society where the values, and the resulting societal strictures, will eventually be decided by those semi-feral children and not their overly permissive parents.

What has long been decried by the civilized Christian West as "the cowardly act of animals" – how very raciss and judgmental – may well become the next "new normal". No one should be so foolish as to believe that behavioral change on a societal level is either predestined or readily controlled by government bureaucracy. It is easier to destroy than create; it is easier to degrade than strengthen. The progressives who proudly proclaim that the youth of today are much more open to "gay marriage" should keep in mind that in the not-too-distant future, those formerly open-minded youths may well find themselves position of the disregarded, close-minded elderly, listening in horror as the progressives of tomorrow proudly proclaim that the youth are much more open to "sexual services on demand".

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92 Comments:

Anonymous Disco Spectator April 21, 2013 5:56 AM  

At first I was afraid I was petrified.
Kept thinking I could never live without you by my side.

And I grew strong!
And I learned how to get along!

Did I crumble
Did I lay down and die
Oh no, not I! I will survive!
Oh and as long as I know how to love I know I stay alive.

Anonymous Crude April 21, 2013 6:05 AM  

Now, I realize that many doubt my thesis that most of the desirable tenets of Christian civilization will not survive in post-Christian society, but note that in Diamond, we already have a well-regarded, much-honored academic overtly advocating a return to many pagan, pre-civilized customs.

Count me as someone who was originally skeptical of this, but as time goes on I understand a good reason to believe it.

People seem to be under the impression that the same twisted logic, lack of introspection and general dishonesty that allows them to justify late-term abortion, gluttony (sexual and otherwise) and more cannot possibly be used to justify anything they actually dislike. A little like how the French revolutionaries clearly didn't think that mob mentality and a reign of terror could ever whip around and be used against them.

Blogger Shimshon April 21, 2013 6:10 AM  

Hmmm...if child cuts (or permanently maims, or even kills) himself with a knife, that's okay. But to mete a punishment on him before he harms himself, that's grounds for divorce? Either way, the kid gets hurt, but presumably the latter way will teach a lesson while not inflicting lasting harm. Gotta love those savages.

Blogger Shimshon April 21, 2013 6:12 AM  

I'm surprised they didn't kill the husband in the process of gang-raping his wife. A question to pose, perhaps on AGP, was whether she orgasmed, and how many times.

Blogger HaroldC April 21, 2013 6:26 AM  

It apparently matters little to the academics that those primitive societies haven't advanced substantially in 10,000 years. Primitive societies are failed societies because they lack the ability to adapt. They're evolutionary dead ends. Those societies survive not by increasing productivity which they appear to be incapable of doing regardless but by limiting population numbers. All that can be learned from them is what cultural adaptations to avoid; certainly not what to emulate.

Anonymous sprach von Teufelshunden April 21, 2013 6:30 AM  

Some say we are heading back to tribal paradigms. Maybe, maybe so. I would say not until all (and long post that) societal civilized norms have broken down, and disintegrated. We could be headed that way. I say we are jumping the gun, way too early.

At least, so says Kurzweil, Joy, Gates, et al. The singularity comes by/before 2045. And, then the select of us, will become as gods. [1] Dispose of them, then the tribal massacres can begin, of what remnant is left, in a truly distopian/apocalyptic future.

Even before all that, we need to really concentrate, for now, of a possible impending civil war, between us and the Federal Reserve System and its preeminent enforcement arm, the DHS...



----------
[1] Make sure you check out Part 1. It has a thing or two to say about the FED.

* I am continually amazed, that some of the most hard-hitting journalism, with such detail, comes from a retired Ph.D clinical psychologist, with 35+ years professional experience. A large part of that experience, from counseling military/intelligence and law enforcement clients.

Anonymous Disgusted April 21, 2013 6:40 AM  

"I'm surprised they didn't kill the husband in the process of gang-raping his wife. A question to pose, perhaps on AGP, was whether she orgasmed, and how many times."

More to the point, Shimson, is how many times you orgasmed while visualising the rape.

Blogger IM2L844 April 21, 2013 6:58 AM  

It's interesting to watch human nature's unquenchable desire to demonstrate faith in something despite all the superficial contrary pretensions.

Anonymous Ha April 21, 2013 7:11 AM  

If a child plays with a sharp knife and waves it around, so be it. They will cut themselves on some occasions, but society figures it is better for the child to learn the hard way early in life. They are allowed to make their own choices and follow their own interests.

Diamond comes from exactly the group that demands all sorts of things on the grounds of child safety, including bike helmets and wooden mulch on the playground. When I was a kid, you had to learn the hard way not to fall off your bike or off the monkey bars onto the asphalt, but no more. And you certainly don't get to make your own choice about putting infants in a state-approved car seat...

Anonymous realmatt April 21, 2013 7:22 AM  

It amazes me that people who believe in evolution (and there's no doubt in my mind Mr. Diamond and the like absolutely do) and worship the Gods of Science look upon the still primitive people of the world as something to admire.

They're a living window to the past. Like animal documentaries they should be studied to remind us of our civilized selves at our most basic and uncivilized.

Anonymous A Christian in Hollyweird April 21, 2013 8:12 AM  

I don't know. If lasting for thousands of years is the cultural goal, forming a primitive hunter-gatherer society isn't the worst option i.e. the San Bushmen. Anyway, what good is table manners when one's cup is filled with the blood of sixty million slaughtered babies. There's hot blooded local jungle violence, and there's sanitized cold-blooded 'civilized' mechanized slaughter. In different forms, the same darkness prevails. Only Christ can shine the light through this vale of sorrows.

Psalm 2
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Blogger Rantor April 21, 2013 8:15 AM  

Jared is clueless on raising children. His would probably be run over by a car before the age of 3. I am glad that my parents taught me things so I didn't have to experience the pain of trial and error.

Anonymous Rosalys April 21, 2013 8:25 AM  

We are already experiencing the effects of parents refusing to discipline their children. It's only going to get worse and people should be at the very least terrified, but better yet motivated to correct the situation. Sadly, neither seems to be the case. Our rabbit warren society is only afraid of the wrong things. They are terrified of global warming. I had a friend tell me the other day that she is depressed over the fact that there are polluted rivers. And an entire city goes under lock down while a battalion of extremely, heavily armed and armored commandos hunt down one wounded 19 year old. But there is nothing to fear from a generation of spoiled brats, lawless individuals in government and the rabbits they feed, and certainly there is absolutely nothing to fear from "the religion of peace!" But we should be afraid of Tea-partiers, law abiding gun owners and Christians (I had someone tell me last night that most murders are committed by Christians without one fact to back up this wild statement. And yet when I told him he was wrong - and that was ALL I said, "Your wrong!" I was chastised because my style of argument is "too harsh!" Am I crazy or is there something seriously out of kilter?

Anonymous VD April 21, 2013 8:32 AM  

And yet when I told him he was wrong - and that was ALL I said, "Your wrong!" I was chastised because my style of argument is "too harsh!" Am I crazy or is there something seriously out of kilter?

You're not crazy. And don't accept such chastisement either. I hope you kicked him in the teeth and told him to stop being such a sensitive little bunny rabbit. That is their game. To intimidate and offend, then scream and cry that you are offending them when you don't silently accept their assertions.

But they can't take it. They can only deal it out. Just keep hammering it home and they will eventually crumble.

Anonymous Not a Randian April 21, 2013 8:36 AM  

would be interesting to connect your "rabbit" concept to Rand's concept of "sanction of the victim" ...very similar!

Anonymous Jou_ma_se April 21, 2013 8:36 AM  

Yeah, there's this delusion that enough education = reason = default benevolence. Moral instruction is not necessary. It just gets in there by itself with the reason. All reasonable people act benevolently because it is beneficial. And the more insight people have the more compassionate they become, etc. It's all ponies.

Of course what's interesting is that leading bioethicists do find the problem of fraud in research difficult to approach. It's also said that teaching ethics to scientists may mot be enough. And I've heard one important guy mention that although he's the last one to say it, the Biblical morality has a lot going for it in terms of what researchers should be doing.

Anonymous Josh April 21, 2013 8:43 AM  

Aren't these the same tribes that die of parasites because they eat human brains?

Anonymous rubberducky April 21, 2013 8:46 AM  

I hope more progs head to Papua New Guinea. The tribesmen have been known to eat people.

Anonymous Josh April 21, 2013 8:49 AM  

Even before all that, we need to really concentrate, for now, of a possible impending civil war, between us and theFederal Reserve System and its preeminent enforcement arm, the DHS

Your Dr Preston James is a greenbacker idiot like Ellen Brown. And why hasn't Bernanke been arrested? You told us he would be arrested within the first week of April.

Anonymous VD April 21, 2013 8:57 AM  

Josh, Dread, the Federal Reserve and the prospective fate of Mr. Bernanke is ludicrously OT. Dread, stop trying to steer unrelated topics to your favored topics of discussion.

Blogger Nate April 21, 2013 9:00 AM  

How does one get to be a well respected academic without ever having read Lord of the Flies?

Anonymous GeeEss April 21, 2013 9:01 AM  

When providing ethical instruction to children (and scientists) it is advised that you employ the phrase "that's not okay" in order to avoid the black and white morality of the fundamentalist's belief in "that is wrong" - which is not okay.

Blogger Nate April 21, 2013 9:01 AM  

"Aren't these the same tribes that die of parasites because they eat human brains?"

They aren't parasites. Its a type of protein called a prion. Its effectively the same thing as Mad Cow Disease.

Anonymous JartStar April 21, 2013 9:04 AM  

Do you think the 4/20 part yesterday was a step towards paganism, or a step forward to a bit of libertarianism with drugs?

Anonymous Stilicho April 21, 2013 9:14 AM  

Do you think the 4/20 part yesterday was a step towards paganism, or a step forward to a bit of libertarianism with drugs?

I think you would find that, while many libertarians argue intellectually for the legalization of drugs (or, more correctly, for the absence of gov't interference), most of those who take to the streets are libertines who seek government approval of their particular vice. Much like the gay marriage mafia. Unlike the gay lobby, the pot heads do appear to be more inclined to the leave-us-alone side, but some similarities are there.

Blogger JDC April 21, 2013 9:17 AM  

Ahhh the primitive and third world nations...they are so useful when we want to point to some non existent utopian ideal...that is until they don't fully endorse homosexuality. Then, they need to be enlightened.

OpenID odinslounge April 21, 2013 9:24 AM  

He's half right, but as seems to be the normal can't deduce the correct conclusions.

It doesn't matter how you deal with the kids from a technical/semantic point of view, the important point is that the kid indeed learns the hard way. One way or another the kid who learns that life is hard and requires effort, sacrifice, and responsibility is going to beat out the softy who demands a free college "education", condoms, and cell phone for no other reason than they think they "deserve" it.

Blogger tz April 21, 2013 9:29 AM  

those formerly open-minded youths may well find themselves position of the disregarded, close-minded elderly, listening in horror as the progressives of tomorrow proudly proclaim that the youth are much more open to "sexual services on demand".

Or that quaint innuit tradition of leaving the burdensome elderly out on ice-floes where they will starve, or a similar tradition in Japan before it was westernized.

That will save social security and Medicare.

Blogger RCR_Chris April 21, 2013 9:33 AM  

Nate,

Because to academics, the only thing that matters in "The Lord of the Flies" is the "significance of the conch shell" or some stupid thing.

Blogger tz April 21, 2013 9:34 AM  

@Nate How does one get to be a well respected academic without ever having read Lord of the Flies?

Ah! You have the art of subtle irony down pat.

OTOH, the story suggests a solution to what to do about universities. Perhaps the entire Women's studies department could be sent to study a tribe of cannibals up close?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 21, 2013 9:41 AM  

Terrifying.

Anonymous Godfrey April 21, 2013 9:53 AM  

The U.S. academic and her husband were walking in a remote area in the woods unarmed?


There are two types of people, those that are naïve and those that are not. All political designations ultimately come down to these two.

Anonymous RINO April 21, 2013 9:54 AM  

It would certainly make the average East Coast cocktail party more lively if the sort of overeducated midwits who take Diamond at face value were to follow the example of the noble people of Papua New Guinea in this regard.

I wonder how they would feel about serving human flesh at these cocktail parties.

Anonymous MendoScot April 21, 2013 9:57 AM  

It's not whether you've read LotF, it's whether you've understood it.

They could have called Piggy "Rabbit", and some still wouldn't grasp the implication.

Anonymous Godfrey April 21, 2013 10:00 AM  

@RINO April 21, 2013 9:54 AM "I wonder how they would feel about serving human flesh at these cocktail parties."


I'm sure in the not to distant future it will be considered progressive and cutting-edge.

Anonymous willneverpostagain April 21, 2013 10:01 AM  

Yes,

Let us run our homes and societies by the whims of four year old children.

It should work out very well.

Anonymous Orville April 21, 2013 10:06 AM  

Oh my gosh! Those poor Papuan's might have contracted an STD. Somebody get the CDC over there right now for testing.

Anonymous Godfrey April 21, 2013 10:10 AM  

@willneverpostagain April 21, 2013 10:01 AM
"Yes,Let us run our homes and societies by the whims of four year old children. It should work out very well."


When one reflects upon the current cultural dominance of east coast elites and Hollywood, one can easily argue that having our society run by the whims of four year old children, even if they be retarded, could be an improvement.

Blogger ajw308 April 21, 2013 10:35 AM  

I'm surprised they didn't kill the husband in the process of gang-raping his wife.
I'm guessing he didn't put up much of a fight. I'm sure she'll respect him for being so enlightened and cultured.

As for liberals changing society, all they have to do is change a few laws. After all the mantra of "You can't legislate morality" would never lead our culture beyond their imagined reality.

When I used to use logic, facts, and history to argue with liberals I'd often try the "The Nazi's never broke their laws" argument against the "abortion is ok because it's legal" justification only to be told "that what they did was wrong".

Blogger GAHCindy April 21, 2013 11:24 AM  

I knew a boy whose mother thought that that kind of permissiveness was the best way to raise him. He threatened me (along with the two younger girls hiding behind me) with a knife in his living room because he was angry at some video game for not letting him win. Lots of showy knife-twirling and screaming, but I don't think he would have been brave enough to do anything at that point. His mommy stood there and politely asked him to stop. Seriously. Asked. Politely. Ugh. We didn't go back over there after that.

All that method of "raising" children does is make them unable to handle the frustrations (even the smallest ones) of real life. Your boss, neighbors, etc. will not tolerate you doing whatever you please, no matter how much you want to. Last time I heard, he was in jail. I don't know why, but I doubt he was wrongly incarcerated. He is also rumored to still resort to violence whenever he is frustrated. Nice job, Mama.

Anonymous Ha April 21, 2013 11:26 AM  

I hope more progs head to Papua New Guinea. The tribesmen have been known to eat people.

There's a hilarious scene in Michael Crichton's State of Fear in which the Hollywood environmentalist nitwit (based on Martin Sheen) goes to the Solomons and gets eaten by cannibals.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 21, 2013 11:45 AM  

Every time some American or British airhead spouts something about Africa and/or Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu, I want to throw up in my mouth. Africa is not paradise. Nor is any other place where dark people dwell. Not even Gandhi could stand the African, referring to them as "raw kafirs" and being p*ssed off that he and his people were treated the same as these savages (his musings, not mine). Oh, you won't find that in any history book anymore, but if you scan through library archives, you'll find many things he said that will make an egalitarian's head explode.

I, for one don't see the magic in cutting out an Albino's eyes or sacrificing a goat to my ancestors in an attempt to ascertain Saturday's winning Lottery numbers. I also fail to see the romantic side of having sex with infants in an attempt to cleanse oneself of AIDS.

Anonymous Ian Watkins April 21, 2013 12:21 PM  

I also fail to see the romantic side of having sex with infants in an attempt to cleanse oneself of AIDS.

Hey, infants are hot and sexy!

Anonymous T14 April 21, 2013 12:37 PM  

I don't think the current incarnation of western secular culture is violent or fecund enough to survive that long.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother April 21, 2013 12:49 PM  

Gang raped, husband subdued and hair hacked off in only twenty minutes? Those Papuans seem incredibly efficient! I wonder, what could they have to teach our supply chain management, logistics and service providers!

Anonymous LeslieSusan April 21, 2013 12:58 PM  

Regarding permissiveness in child rearing, we as a society already tried that experiment. It was helmed by an idiot named Dr. Benjamin Spock. Decades later, our Country is still paying for his stupidity.

Speaking as one who has successfully reared two kids to productive adulthood, Diamond is beyond idiot.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 21, 2013 1:17 PM  

I think you would find that, while many libertarians argue intellectually for the legalization of drugs (or, more correctly, for the absence of gov't interference), most of those who take to the streets are libertines who seek government approval of their particular vice.

Some people what to legalize pot because they are libertarians, and some people are libertarians because they want to legalize pot.

Anyway, I wish we'd put less energy into learning from and emulating primitive cultures from various backwaters of civilization and put more energy into learning from the primitive culture of America circa 1950. Obviously those savage tribesmen of Suburbia had their faults, but I think we could learn a lot from them.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 21, 2013 1:24 PM  

It all depends on what you want. Should a culture only continue for one generation or should it be passed along from generation to generation ?

Christianity has changed within my lifetime, or I should say that the practice of Christianity has changed. The music, which was largely preserved for generations, is often much different now. The sermon topics that were once commonplace are missing anymore. It isn't that the practices and sermons I remember are somehow wrong, they are simply being ignored.

The Constitution of the United States was taught in schools for generations.....not what it should be, but what it has been for over two centuries, with relatively little change. Now that it is barely mentioned in schools, only a few people discuss it, even those determined to replace it with executive orders. It is being ignored at every turn.

I noticed a Navy commercial repeated often on television. Different sailors take turns repeating their (new) oath. At one point they say they will "defend democracy and freedom in the world". That was certainly not the oath I took and I very much object to democracy and freedom being anything but competing ideas. We cannot have democracy AND freedom. We cannot have freedom AND democracy. My oath said nothing about policing the world. It said "all enemies, foreign and domestic". It still does.

Blogger Dr. Faust April 21, 2013 1:25 PM  

Technological progress masks social decay. While gun wounds have increased gun murders has decreased and the progressives celebrate their victory of marching ever leftwards to utopia. There is no social progress. Period. There is only the advance of technology which may hasten social decay.

The west has a fascination with the noble savage that has become suicidal. Avatar, The Last Samurai, Dances With Wolves, multiculturalism are all related, have all fueled the suicide of the west as it has turned in fratricide against the white fathers who built it from wood and rock.

In times of war, depression and suicide decreases. When faced with an external threat a nation may direct their angst outward, providing relief from their anxiety. When there is nowhere to direct this desperation it is channeled inward, toward our own demise, as we recoil against ourselves in vitriol.

Bane in the Dark Knight Rises said it best, "Peace has cost you your strength! Victory has defeated you!"

Anonymous cheddarman April 21, 2013 1:38 PM  

Time for Christians to man up. The barbarians will soon be at the gates.

sincerely

cheddarman

Anonymous Anonagain April 21, 2013 1:41 PM  

I have never heard a Leftist state that a primitive tribe would be more vibrant, strong and awesome only if it were more diverse. On the contrary, they must be revered, preserved, and left undisturbed in exactly the wonderful way they are.

It's only the toopid whites who must allow every kind of dark savage into their utterly meaningless society in order for it to become vibrant and magical.

Diversity, like racism, exists only in one direction.

Anonymous realmatt April 21, 2013 1:46 PM  

Our rabbit warren society is only afraid of the wrong things. They are terrified of global warming. I had a friend tell me the other day that she is depressed over the fact that there are polluted rivers.

Well as much as I despise environmentalists , who tend to be leftoid hippie scum, I do very much hate that rivers, lakes, etc. are being polluted especially considering it's done so with impunity. Nothing sickens me more than someone who isn't forced to pay for his/her actions.

Anonymous realmatt April 21, 2013 1:46 PM  

*has been done so

Anonymous realmatt April 21, 2013 1:49 PM  

It's only the toopid whites who must allow every kind of dark savage into their utterly meaningless society in order for it to become vibrant and magical.

They're bored and like shiny things and bright colors and sexual dances.

And it seems to only be the lily white folk. Cold climate breeds boring sensibilities and "lame" predictable dancing as well as a sick desire to work hard until one's death. It leads their women to long for darker pastures.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 21, 2013 1:50 PM  

Which is the greater virtue, the person who minds his own business or the one who involves himself or herself in what goes on around them?

I believe every society needs a proper mix of both. I want neighbors to mind their own business and I will faithfully stay out of their business too. But when their house (or mine) catches fire, I will hustle next door and help where I can (after calling the fire department). I would hope they would do the same.

We need some people who are big on intruding without permission, like firefighters and emergency medics. Policemen should take a keen interest anytime someone is screaming for help or when a storefront window gets smashed out. These are fairly obvious.

At the same time we need simple boundaries that are commonly respected. Adults want to smoke pot, I could not care less. Just don't rob or steal to get the money to pay for it and don't drive when smoking or drinking. Wanna play house with someone of the same sex, have at it. I could not care less, as long as it is consenting adults....let them....and when they get HIV, that is their problem. Yes, even my adult children. I protected them when they were children, now they make their own choices, same as my own parents.

Does this mean I am a Libertarian? Not in the least.

Anonymous Jeigh Di April 21, 2013 1:56 PM  

"You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

Didn't The Lord of the Flies come about as the result of the author (a teacher) observing how children actually behave?

Anonymous Anonagain April 21, 2013 2:02 PM  

They're bored and like shiny things and bright colors and sexual dances.

And it seems to only be the lily white folk. Cold climate breeds boring sensibilities and "lame" predictable dancing as well as a sick desire to work hard until one's death. It leads their women to long for darker pastures.


Unless you are being facetious, I disagree with your conjecture. Diversity has been forced on white societies whether the majority like it or not. Whites have no innate predilection for savages any more than savages have for whites.

Anonymous Anonagain April 21, 2013 2:25 PM  

And before, whenever whites got bored or cold, they visited the warmer and more savage climes, but they were always happy to return to the society they created for themselves - suited exactly to their boring, hard-working, cold sensibilities.

Anonymous rycamor April 21, 2013 2:48 PM  

Godfrey April 21, 2013 10:00 AM

@RINO April 21, 2013 9:54 AM "I wonder how they would feel about serving human flesh at these cocktail parties."


I'm sure in the not to distant future it will be considered progressive and cutting-edge.


It's not too far off...

Anonymous Loki of Asgard April 21, 2013 4:23 PM  

And lest you retain some small vestige of hope for your society, there is also vorarephilia, which will like as not be the gateway for cannibalism finding acceptance.

Blogger Bogey April 21, 2013 4:38 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Bogey April 21, 2013 4:44 PM  

...and thanks a lot rycamor. My day has now been ruined.

Anonymous Joe in PNG April 21, 2013 4:50 PM  

A few comments from Papua New Guinea:

First, I beleive I've met this couple a few years back. Really nice people, and a real terrible event. And, sadly, this country is a 'gun free zone', so there is no real effective defense against 20 youths with bush knives. Chances are, they just followed that wrong bit of advise to 'not resist and just give them what they want'.

Second, many of the people of PNG are themselves fed up with the tribal mentality and the corruption, crime, and superstition that it brings. Only the academics in the west think that the tribal lifestyle is meritorious. Then again, Diamond isn't having to watch a witch burning at the town market, like they had in Mt. Hagen earlier this year.

And finally, having actually spent time around many PNG children, I don't know why anyone would reccomend the child rasing technique.


Blogger mmaier2112 April 21, 2013 5:01 PM  

Bogey, I didn't even look at the pics and I'm feeling ill too.

Anonymous Anonagain April 21, 2013 5:21 PM  

And lest you retain some small vestige of hope for your society, there is also vorarephilia, which will like as not be the gateway for cannibalism finding acceptance.

I certainly hope not! Who doesn't like to take the occasional love bite or be nibbled on? In a cannibalistic society, how would one know when it's sexual or just dinner time? If I were getting frisky with a cannibal and he started showing his teeth, nibbling on my fingers, and neck, I'd be far from sexually aroused.

Blogger Phoenician April 21, 2013 5:26 PM  

It is easy to say, well, we'll keep the Western strictures against widow-strangling, witch-burning, and academic-raping.

Bad luck, Dipshit - killing witches *is* a Christian "virtue".

However, calling out dipshits like you when they lie is a civilized secular virtue.

Anonymous cheddarman April 21, 2013 5:28 PM  

Cannibals usually eat someone who they admire, someone whose good qualities they would like to appropriate through the act of eating them. This explains why Jared Diamond will never end up in a cannibal's pot.

Anonymous VD April 21, 2013 5:32 PM  

However, calling out dipshits like you when they lie is a civilized secular virtue.

As if you would know, Phony. But you're not civilized. Even your chosen name indicates your barbarism.

It is highly amusing to see you simultaneously attempt to assert your civilized credentials while calling people "dipshits". Why are you so homophobic? I mean, I assume you must grasp the etymology.

Blogger Markku April 21, 2013 5:40 PM  

He clearly thinks he is fighting fire with fire, or rabbit with dipshit. Not understanding that mere repetition doesn't do the trick for a word. Rather, the word needs to give a name to something that one always had a vague idea about, but never really identified as a specific thing. That's how a word gets its value for the user, and you just can't help using it.

Anonymous MendoScot April 21, 2013 5:44 PM  

Really, folks, if a fetus is not human then an embryo nigiri is merely another canapé.

Provided it was harvested before 16 weeks, eh A.Man?

Anonymous kh123 April 21, 2013 5:46 PM  

"...is a civilized secular virtue."

All of those nosebleeds, the soapbox being as high as it is.

And all of that virtue wasted on an anonymous handle. Time to trot out the real name.

Blogger Markku April 21, 2013 5:47 PM  

Really, folks, if a fetus is not human then an embryo nigiri is merely another canapé.

A truly decadent meal.

(See? Another Screwtapian linguistic victory.)

Anonymous Loki of Asgard April 21, 2013 5:48 PM  

In a cannibalistic society, how would one know when it's sexual or just dinner time?

Very simple: If he says he wishes to have you for dinner and does not then take you to a restaurant...

Anonymous VD April 21, 2013 5:51 PM  

He clearly thinks he is fighting fire with fire, or rabbit with dipshit.

Actually, I think he's trying to fight McRapey with Dipshit. I think it's short for Racist Sexist Homophobic Dipshit.

Either way, being a rabbit, he can't grasp that Dipshit doesn't bother me the way McRapey bothers Mr. Wobbles.

Anonymous Anonagain April 21, 2013 5:52 PM  

Phony is having one heck of time reaching your apparently irresistible ankles, Vox. This teeny but uber rabid anklebiter wannabe simply got no chili. He snaps at your big toe with the ferocity of a demented slug.

Anonymous Sigyn April 21, 2013 5:52 PM  

The Vox Popoli Weight Loss Program:

Read thread on cannibalism. Lose appetite.

Bleeeeeagh.

Blogger Markku April 21, 2013 5:54 PM  

Oh, right. Forgot about the D. Got all wistful, thinking about managing to do racism, sexism and homophobia at the same time.

But he can keep shit-dipping.

Anonymous MendoScot April 21, 2013 5:55 PM  

Bad luck, Dipshit - killing witches *is* a Christian "virtue".

My memory may be hazy, but I seem to recall that killing witches was a decidedly secular habit in continental Europe, and not condoned by the church that considered belief in witchcraft to be a delusion.

Still, as I've said before, burning a witch and baking potatoes in the embers certainly has redeeming qualities in terms of social cohesion, education of the young and burned fingers and tongues.

Blogger Markku April 21, 2013 6:03 PM  

About three years ago I went on record predicting that cannibalism would be the next big fad. I even made sure less than a year ago, that at least Zeno still remembered that I said so, as he was involved in the original discussion. He did.

It's almost like a spirit of prophecy...

Blogger Markku April 21, 2013 6:06 PM  

Although it isn't 100% accurate. I also went on record to Vox lately, that a specific group of people would shit all over a specific thread, and it didn't happen.

So, no prophecy.

Anonymous VD April 21, 2013 6:29 PM  

This teeny but uber rabid anklebiter wannabe simply got no chili.

He's a Pharyngulan. What can you expect? He's probably a bitter, overweight, impoverished grad student who wasn't smart enough to do the math before he went into debt to get his masters.

All they have is their atheism and bad science fiction. Which is to say, nothing. You can't feel sorry for them, but you can't really blame them for how they behave either. They don't know any better and they have folks like PZ and Scalzi as their role models.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 21, 2013 6:50 PM  

"Her husband and the guide were stripped and bound by the (9 armed) men, who then used a bush knife to hack off the woman's (blonde) hair before raping her in a terrifying ordeal lasting 20 minutes."

I dunno. Nine armed men, ordeal lasting 20 whole minutes, and free haircut? Either they just THOUGHT about it, or she THOUGHT it MIGHT have happened, or it COULD have. I have some experience with 32 year old female blonde academics and 20 minutes would never have been enough, so I have to wonder about all this mythology about savages and sex. Heck, that is like less than two minutes apiece and no down time. Sounds more like an overweight middle-aged white guy who sells used cars than it does young tanned island natives running on the beach. (Maybe her watch stopped.)

Anonymous Sigyn April 21, 2013 7:01 PM  

He's probably a bitter, overweight, impoverished grad student who wasn't smart enough to do the math before he went into debt to get his masters.

Yikes! That's fat-shaming, ageism, income snobbery, anti-education, math-ist, and...um...bitter-ist all in one shot.

"RSHD" needs to be updated OMG squee!

Anonymous Anonagain April 21, 2013 7:44 PM  

All they have is their atheism and bad science fiction.

My recent disappointment with The Hobbit had me once again happily ensconced with my lovely heroes in the LOTR - almost out of spite for having been deprived.

While watching the despicable Orcs grovel to Saruman, it suddenly occurred to me how utterly empty is the existence of the irredeemably evil. What do they live for? What are their dreams, hopes and aspirations made of?

Leftists are much the same as these Orcs with respect too all that is good and decent. What the hell does a creature like this Phony have except his bitterness, resentment and hate for Truth and reality. Their world is a wasteland unfit for humanity.

Blogger Markku April 21, 2013 7:51 PM  

What do they live for? What are their dreams, hopes and aspirations made of?

There are such great lines about this in C.S. Lewis's The Great Divorce:

---
There were Ghosts, plain and simple: mere bogies, fully conscious of their own decay, who had accepted the traditional role of the spectre, and seemed to hope they could frighten someone. I had had no idea that this desire was possible. But my Teacher reminded me that the pleasure of frightening is by no means unknown on earth, and also of Tacitus' saying: "They terrify lest they should fear." When the debris of a decayed human soul finds itself crumbled into ghosthood and realises "I myself am now that which all humanity has feared, I am just that cold churchyard shadow, that horrible thing which cannot be, yet somehow is," then to terrify others appears to it an escape from the doom of being a Ghost, yet still fearing Ghosts - fearing even the Ghost it is. For to be afraid of oneself is the last horror.

But, beyond all these, I saw other grotesque phantoms in which hardly a trace of the human form remained; monsters who had faced the journey to the bus stop - perhaps for them it was thousands of miles - and come up to the country of the Shadow of Life and limped far into it over the torturing grass, only to spit and gibber out in one ecstasy of hatred their envy and (what is harder to understand) their contempt, of joy. The voyage seemed to them a small price to pay if once, only once, within sight of that eternal dawn, they could tell the prigs, the toffs, the sanctimonious humbugs, the snobs, the "haves," what they thought of them.

Anonymous Anonagain April 21, 2013 8:11 PM  

C. S. Lewis sure knew his trolls.

The voyage seemed to them a small price to pay if once, only once, within sight of that eternal dawn, they could tell the prigs, the toffs, the sanctimonious humbugs, the snobs, the "haves," what they thought of them.

Now with the Internet, they can ravage ankles all day long right from the convenience of their basement.

Anonymous tiredofitall April 21, 2013 9:20 PM  

"I'm surprised they didn't kill the husband in the process of gang-raping his wife." - Shimshon

Well if they did then how would he ever learn from their "enlightened" savagery?

Anonymous Anonymous April 21, 2013 9:31 PM  

Reading these posts I was becoming a little disheartend about civilization's prospects until VD pointed out: "They don't know any better and they have folks like PZ and Scalzi as their role models."

LOL! So you can see now how my spirits have soared and all this doom saying is much ado about nothing (just atheism and bad science).

~ Charles Lindbergh, 1404 Kittyhawk Lane, El Segundo, CA 90028 867-5309

Anonymous CrazyDiamond April 22, 2013 10:37 AM  

"He's probably a bitter, overweight, impoverished grad student who wasn't smart enough to do the math before he went into debt to get his masters."

You don't even need math here. If you're paying for a graduate degree, you're doing something wrong.

Blogger Baloo April 22, 2013 10:42 AM  

He is SUCH a dink. This is quoted, linked, and riffed on here:
Jared Diamond is Still a Putz

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