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Friday, May 03, 2013

Speaking out vs shooting

Sarah Hoyt is rightly concerned about what she sees as the growing prospects for Round II:
I’m hearing more and more “It’s going to come to shooting.”  I have a sinking feeling in my water that it might very well come to that.  I’d prefer not, though.  Look, I have sons.  Also, we do not live in a nice world.  If our world were really the black-and-white world the liberals believe in, where the USA is the big bad wolf and everyone else is a sweet little lamb who wouldn’t hurt anyone but for fear of the wolf, a civil war might not be a bad idea.

Of course if the world really were like that, we’d be dealing with a species other than human and perhaps communism would work.  Who knows?  May be worth an SF story.

But the world is not like that, and the US even if it is rapidly flushing generational wealth down the toilet is still much wealthier than most of the world, and is way wealthier than most of the Americas.  (This btw is taken by the communists as proof of malfeasance.  It’s a religious dogma.)

While we are involved in a civil war – and let’s assume it’s only half as bloody and half as long as our last one – do you think the other nations of the world will sit still?  Forget a Chinese invasion (though G-d knows you shouldn’t) or Russia getting involved on one side or another with a  view to ruling portions of our country when all is done (and if you dismiss that, you should study the roles of France and England on the past civil war) and just think about the people who hate us and who think (and our media has HELPED this perception) all their woes are our fault, and who  think they’re accumulating virgins in heaven – and prestige on Earth – by hitting us with acts of terrorism writ large.

How many cities do you think we’d lose to random acts of revenge?

What I mean is that it might very well come to that.  But do you want it?  Talk about setting us back generations.  Yes, I know you’re furious and I’ve heard the “we have all the guns” boast.  It’s not true, okay?  Yeah, we have most of them.  And sure, we probably could win in days.  Except that you forget how many third world armies would gladly fight on the other side, once it got started.  And would be promised everything they want if they do.

Oh, sure, they’d probably still lose – but I’m predicting we’d all be wading in blood to our ankles before it’s said and done, and parts of the country would be radioactive for a century.

Again, it might still come to that.  And I think the other side wants that – probably more than even the nuts on the “right” – because part of their religion (don’t fool yourself it’s not one) is the belief that history has favorites and that they’re it.  They think in the end they win.  (They might perhaps want to consult the Norse legends, to figure out which said was believed to win in the end.  Never mind.)

But before the shooting starts – in this moment in the heart of the storm – perhaps those of us to the right of Lenin should try something we haven’t tried before.  Perhaps we should try speaking out.

Look, I’m as cowardly as the rest of you.  I spent more than twenty years, between breaking in and finally losing my mind, listening to digs about “the rich” from people who could buy me and sell me outright; I spend years at parties and meetings listening to Marxist pap and not pointing out how stupid it was; listening to public figures on the right being denigrated as “stupid” when it was obvious they weren’t, etc.  And I shut up.  Because I wanted to make a living in my chosen profession.

I’m still not half as brave as I’d like to be, though I try to speak out if I’m present.  And yes, I know I’ll pay a monetary price.  But I don’t go out of my way to look for fights, because I’ll pay a monetary price.  And also because, frankly, I know many good people on their side.  I don’t want to upset them.

But consider....

Every time our silence gives consent, what we’re giving consent to is the inevitability of eventual shooting.

You know those massacres that have happened in every communist paradise?  Here the would-be victims are armed.  To quote the title of some Baen anthologies There WILL be War.

Unless we stop it now.  Unless we’re as brave with our words as we eventually will have to be with our guns, if we stay silent.
I understand her concerns. The problem is that words aren't going to stop anything now. For every Sarah Hoyt who immigrated and successfully managed the transition to American traditions and values, there are ten or more who did not and five native Americans who have abandoned the ideals and traditions of their forefathers in favor of one flavor or another of secular progressivism.

There is a powerful correlation between economic contraction and war, although the causality is complicated. Even so, it is readily apparent that the relative peace of the last sixty years, and the civil peace inside America for the last 148, is largely a byproduct of the explosion of the economic growth that took place, first in the USA, then later in the world, followed by the post-WWII Pax Americana that ensued from the American industrial infrastructure being the only advanced one left standing.  But success invariably plants the seeds of its own destruction. Since the long moratorium on immigration ended in 1965, the post-1962 mass apostasy that followed Vatican II,  and the great Hispanic invasion began in the 1980s, the inevitable national fracturing is rapidly approaching and will likely become more evidence with the next phase of the current economic crisis.

There no longer is one American nation, there are at least four. There are the Reds of progressive, secular America, there are the Whites of traditional religious America, there are the Browns of third world America, and there are the Blacks of feral America.  These colors should be understood to be symbolic in the sense of the Russian Reds and Whites, not literal, as there are blacks whose allegiance is to White America and Hispanic immigrants who are far more Red than Brown.

Hoyt is primarily concerned about an eventual war between Red America and the giant government is both its inspiration and its weapon, and liberty-loving White America. But Brown America is the X factor; its political support for the Reds has been leased for the short term by state and federal largesse, but the Browns have little interest in either the progressive secular ideals of the Reds or the political and cultural traditions of the Whites.  And Brown America is perfectly capable of starting the fireworks by virtue of its own innate irredentism, which will only become stronger as Red America's ability to transfer resources to it wanes.

Anyone who has followed the history of warfare knows that wars seldom begin directly between the two primary powers. There is usually the Archduke's assassination, the invasion of Manchuria, or something similar on the margins before the war begins in earnest. This is why Sarah's plea for speaking out in preference to shooting, however sensible, decent, and heartfelt, is, unfortunately,  largely irrelevant. I'm not saying it is not worth doing, quite to the contrary, I would similarly encourage others to speak out. I merely caution against putting any faith in its success.

There will be war, whether anyone truly desires it or not. There has always been war and there always will be war, the arrogant pretenses of the totalitarians and their self-serving promises of peace on Earth notwithstanding. As Vegetius wrote: Si vis pacem, para bellum.  The Union cannot be saved because it no longer exists in the hearts of men.

"Twenty-nine percent of registered voters think that an armed revolution might be necessary in the next few years in order to protect liberties, according to a Public Mind poll by Fairleigh Dickinson University."

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203 Comments:

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Anonymous Red May 03, 2013 4:14 AM  

Speaking up during a leftist singularity is a very bad idea. Those guillotines will run day and night and the left will be giddy about our stupidity of self identifying. You know what a good idea is? Going around the system. Form small groups that you can contact on a moments notice who will apply "unofficial pressure" to officials who get out of line. Someone use the law/system/government against you? Use your circle against them. Let the enforces decide there are better targets to fuck with. Make your group local, off the grid, and ready to pay a high price to protect one another.

Anonymous Ulmer Miller May 03, 2013 4:24 AM  

Vox or Ilk: Does anyone care to give an educated guess on where the 4-5 Americas may delineate? It's actually something that's been on my mind for a while because I live and work in a sanctuary city in the Midwest. MS13 has membership here and they could make the biggest power play but where could a white religious Christian and his wife go when the SHTF? Is there a better part of the country to be in when it goes down? I have friends but they're deaf to this sort of scenario as most are ignorant or have married exotic women, so networking with them for protection/survival is pointless. Any tips?

Blogger Nate May 03, 2013 4:51 AM  

Chicago? Son it doesn't matter where you pick... just pick somewhere. Chicago is Ground Zero. My advice is to find some rural area where there aren't many folks. Hard to go wrong with Wyoming. Hard to go wrong with Idaho.

Blogger Nate May 03, 2013 4:53 AM  

The problem with Sarah's point is... we've been speaking out for decades. She may be new to the game but that doesn't change the fact that the game has been going on.

You cannot reason with people who in their hearts, believe they are doing what is best for everyone, and are willing to kill you to see it done.

Anonymous Outlaw X May 03, 2013 4:56 AM  

"An empire cannot maintain a republic.", speaking of Rome. Can't remember who said it, but it was said by someone at the end of the Roman Republic and I can't find it.

I think Vox nailed the time frame of the decline, but forgot to mention JFK and the fact they got away with it. Back when my dad was alive I remember in the 80's tell me that the USA's turning point was in the early sixties. I didn't understand what he meant until I was older. He also as a joke told me JFK was killed with LBJ's deer rifle.

Anonymous Mudz May 03, 2013 5:23 AM  

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/local-nbc-reporter-hilariously-denies-soviet-flags-present-at-may-day-rally-what-do-they-represent/

This might not be everyone's interest, but does anyone have any thoughts about this and the beast of revelation?

It goes something like 'the beast received a death-stroke, but then it recovered, and all the earth followed it in admiration'.

You guys know history better than I do, so if anyone has any thoughts, I'd love to hear them. I have a mission to figure out Revelation as best I can. For obvious reasons. :P

Anonymous Mudz May 03, 2013 5:25 AM  

'This' being Communism, or something related, I mean.

Anonymous Peter Garstig May 03, 2013 5:37 AM  

I actually believe it'll hit Europe much harder than it will the USA...again.

People in Europe simply are not armed as they are on the other side of the ocean.

Anonymous VD May 03, 2013 5:50 AM  

I actually believe it'll hit Europe much harder than it will the USA...again.

I don't. The immigration problem is an order of magnitude larger in the States than in Europe. I've asked many Europeans and only one has correctly identified the rough number of Hispanics when told that there are 310 million people living in the USA. Most assume it is between one and five million. They simply cannot conceive of an entire large European nation's worth of Hispanics living inside US borders.

Anonymous VD May 03, 2013 5:54 AM  

People in Europe simply are not armed as they are on the other side of the ocean.

But neither are their governments. Even the German military is tiny. The Bundeswehr has 66,000 soldiers. That's a smaller military force than the combined NYPD, CPD, and LAPD!

Anonymous Peter Garstig May 03, 2013 5:57 AM  

Well, there are quite a few original hispanics (not correct term, I know) in Spain. Europe is and has been much more heterogenic than the US has ever been, the EU project shows this quite clearly. My point is simply the gun rate of the population.

Anonymous zen0 May 03, 2013 6:03 AM  

From an article on Mexican views if the US: ".....a sizable minority (35%) say they would move to the U.S. if they could, including 20% who say they would emigrate without authorization."


Mexican population = 112.3 million in 2010

Go figure.

Anonymous Stilicho May 03, 2013 7:06 AM  

29%...better than I expected.

Anonymous Peter Garstig May 03, 2013 7:23 AM  

But neither are their governments. Even the German military is tiny. The Bundeswehr has 66,000 soldiers. That's a smaller military force than the combined NYPD, CPD, and LAPD!

Almost 90% of US Americans own guns, in Germany only 30% do. It's no question that these 30% is still alot more than all of the military and police forces combined. The question then is: what will the remaining 70% unarmed people do? German (and European) history suggests that they will seek protection under big government. There is not really a track record of historical opposition to big government in Europe (the british islands being the exceptions). In fact, those opposing big governments used to migrate to the states.

Of course, it's changing quickly in the states, but to come to the level of Europe there are still some years/decades left. I maintain the the EU explodes earlier than the US.

Anonymous jack May 03, 2013 7:25 AM  

zen0: Mexican population = 112.3 million in 2010

Yes. But, how many Mexican citizens, most illegal, in the USA at that time? I would guess north of 30 million.
Like Sarah I hope it will not come to a shoot out. I'm, personally, getting a bit long in the tooth for that work. Won't shirk it if need be though I would really like to enjoy my grand kids growing up in a peaceful environment. Praying could not hurt; but keep the powder dry, I suppose. When I was a kid a popular saying among my family was that 'God helps those who help themselves'
Helping yourself can take many forms...

Anonymous Joe Doakes May 03, 2013 7:27 AM  

I live in St. Paul, Minnesota, which run by Democrats who consider themselves mainstream. Well, yes, by comparison to Minneapolis, run by The Green Party.

Sarah, the people who run this town honestly, earnestly, sincerely believe they personally are smarter than any Old Dead White Guy who lived long before Light Rail or WiFi and so could not understand the problems of the world today.

If you disagree with any proposal, their first response is "I must not be making myself clear, because if I were, you'd agree with me." Persist in disagreement, and they say "You don't really believe that, you're just saying it to be contrary." Continue to speak out and they say "If you understand the issue but reject my solution, you must be evil." And once you're branded as evil, then polite society can shun you and drive you out. Indeed, they have an obligation to, lest your hateful speech corrupt others.

Democrats are no more tolerant than fundamental Islamists, they just shop at Whole Foods instead of the halal market.

Anonymous jack May 03, 2013 7:33 AM  

OT: Marcher Lord's free download for the free ebook [purchase of SE] was online this morning. Thank You. I could not wait and went ahead purchased Witchking and read the signature story. It was very good, dark, but good. Too short. That thing could have been a novel. If a novel I would like to have seen Solenoth have to fight a resurgent Witchking again. Think Napoleon's brief revival before getting a vacation in the south Atlantic.

Anonymous jack May 03, 2013 7:37 AM  

@Joe: Democrats are no more tolerant than fundamental Islamists, they just shop at Whole Foods instead of the halal market.

Well and truely said. Anyone know what a direct example from history would be for this behavior? And, how the result's played out? Suspect I should know but welcome any ideas. If there are any times that apply I would do some digging and reading. Probably won't like what I read. Probably....

Anonymous Stilicho May 03, 2013 7:37 AM  

Continue to speak out and they say "If you understand the issue but reject my solution, you must be evil." And once you're branded as evil, then polite society can shun you and drive you out

To them "evil" would be an impermissible judgment in their relativistic world view. Substitute "mentally ill" for "evil" and you've hit the nail on the head.

Blogger Amy May 03, 2013 7:41 AM  

Perhaps this will hasten the war: http://www.alternet.org/environment/ready-rationing-why-we-should-put-brakes-consumption-if-we-want-survive?paging=off

Open borders assumes infinite cornucopia. Rationing indicates infinite cornucopia is false. How long with the producers tolerate rationing of physical goods to accommodate third world immigrants who have less?

The rationing happening right now in the form of theft to pay blacks/browns to stay down isn't hurting enough. Start telling people they can only buy so much actual gas or food or clothing, or housing (instead of the theoretical gas/food/clothing/housing they can't buy due to taxation theft) and stuff gets ugly right quick.

Healthcare rationing is only the beginning.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza May 03, 2013 7:41 AM  

Looks like others sense looming instability, insolvency and chaos; http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-02/ron-paul-jim-rogers-government-theyll-use-force-and-intimidation

Anonymous Despair May 03, 2013 7:46 AM  

Sarah is right about war. Too many people romanticize it and forget what a pure hell it is. Its the very last thing to try when all else has failed.

Anonymous VD May 03, 2013 7:49 AM  

I maintain the EU explodes earlier than the US.

The EU will collapse before the USA, yes. But the nature of the collapse will be nationalistic and any violence will be directed at the Muslim and African communities. The US collapse will spark internecine violence between the three major Americas, complicated by the pointless lashing out of the fourth one. And civil war is always much more lethal than war.

The EU gives the various nations of Europe a target against which they can ally. The key there is the lack of German support for the EU.

Blogger JD Curtis May 03, 2013 7:50 AM  

Sarah's plea for speaking out in preference to shooting, however sensible, decent, and heartfelt, is, unfortunately, largely irrelevant. I'm not saying it is not worth doing, quite to the contrary, I would similarly encourage others to speak out. I merely caution against putting any faith in its success

Agreed. The media and educational system in the US have successfully labotomized a large percentage of the population to the point where if you speak out, you will be drowned out by a chorus of emotion, rather than fact based arguments.

On a side not for SF fans out there, creation.com posted an article from their archive today, Science Fiction: A Biblical perspective

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 8:04 AM  

VD: When you broke down your "four Americas," you forgot the fifth (hey, rhymes with fifth column). There is yet another separate America, or shall we say "America," nestling comfortably, and comfortably well-hidden, within the secular Red America, and which doesn't give a rat's ass about the actual fate of Red secular America, or white America, or black or brown America. It cares only for itself.

I'll let you guess what it is, and how much it owns and controls.

Anonymous VD May 03, 2013 8:17 AM  

When you broke down your "four Americas," you forgot the fifth (hey, rhymes with fifth column).

Jews don't comprise an America, as they are too statistically insignificant and from the historical perspective they are more akin to nomads passing through. Once things break down, the historical pattern indicates that they'll be moving on again. Those who do remain will mostly throw in with the Reds and find themselves scapegoated.

History quite clearly shows that the painstakingly acquired Jewish financial influence is easily cast off by any people or ruler that is willing to give up the siren song of cheap credit.

Anonymous Redjack May 03, 2013 8:22 AM  

That 29% number is interesting.

You have to be a fool to say that on a poll.

But if that polling number is correct, then the real number is well north of 40%

Stay in Italy Vox. This will get interesting.

Anonymous RedJack May 03, 2013 8:30 AM  

If you disagree with any proposal, their first response is "I must not be making myself clear, because if I were, you'd agree with me." Persist in disagreement, and they say "You don't really believe that, you're just saying it to be contrary." Continue to speak out and they say "If you understand the issue but reject my solution, you must be evil." And once you're branded as evil, then polite society can shun you and drive you out. Indeed, they have an obligation to, lest your hateful speech corrupt others.

Joe If you talk to them long enough, you will hear that they really want to kill those who disagree with them. I joke about heresy trials, but that is just what it is. Dissent from their worldview is evil, and must be ended before it can infect others. That is why the Koch brothers proposal to buy the LA Times is met with such hatred. They have to control all of the narrative. Just like the Hapburgs of old, they are will to use soft censorship, but won't hesitate to kill you if they view you as a big enough threat.

Anonymous Outlaw X May 03, 2013 8:49 AM  

Jews don't comprise an America, as they are too statistically insignificant and from the historical perspective they are more akin to nomads passing through. Once things break down, the historical pattern indicates that they'll be moving on again. Those who do remain will mostly throw in with the Reds and find themselves scapegoated.

This is very true. I already see the pattern. I don't come to this site to be some smart guy giving advice, I come here because it is about the only place where history and reality meet. Like turtles, where if they are going down hill expect a drought and if they are going uphill expect a wet season.

People have forgoten where they come from and it is God's nature and his signs. We have lost most of it through the fake world of TV and gaming.

I am just an old farm boy who moved on, yet never forgot the wisdom of those who came before me.

Blogger tz May 03, 2013 9:01 AM  

Europe will be strange asnthey are without tradition. Antichrist might arise from the rubble.

Everyone should read "The transformation of War" by Van Creveld.

We already have the guns out. How was boston locked down? Is not the FBI entrapping "infiltraitors"? And that was on the anniversary of the massacre at Waco. Meanwhile, the NaziSurveilanceAuthority is listening to all your communication. Sandyhook was another call to surrender and put down your arms. We have malicious prosecutions - they are bothered about Aaron Swartz, but not about the other 99%. The big banks and other crony capitalists are pillaging worse than the Vikings. Then there are the million sacrifices each year to the modern molech.

We are at war and have been for some time. What is missed is the BigGov points at the muslims and America will burn the Constitution out of fear and hatred and anger to get back at "them".

We have replaced the rule of natural law and the constitution woth a contract with Lucifer who vows to keep us safe from the boogeymen. But who will keep us safe from the Devil who is draining our soul, drop by drop.


Anonymous SBT May 03, 2013 9:06 AM  

"All politics in this country now is just dress rehearsal for civil war." Billy Beck, Two-Four Blog, 2009

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 9:08 AM  

"Jews don't comprise an America"

They don't have to; a mere feigned "America" is more than sufficient for them to inflict their considerable damage. If you take a census of all the critters living in your household, and neglect to include the termites... well, in 56 months I can refer you to a decent contractor to rebuild what's left of it.

Were it not for the toxic presence of these malignant "nomads passing through", we'd all be just discussing what's for dinner tonight, instead of the advent of Civil War II.

Anonymous Different T May 03, 2013 9:14 AM  

Your commentary on the "four Americas" indicates that you think those groups possess an integrated worldview, as opposed to a bastardized intellect which holds many ideas founded on contradictory premises.

Consider the interaction between the statements "men are being feminized" and "women love the strong horse."

Today's Christians and "conservatives" are concerned with neither destruction nor creation, only preservation. Yet you state "The Union cannot be saved because it no longer exists in the hearts of men."

"Absence of Christians and others of the traditional civilized West willing to stand up against modern trash culture and the third world invasion," yet much of the commentary on blogs of this type is about preservation. Why do women and many men openly mock and ridicule Christian and "conservative" views?

"Women love the strong horse."

Blogger El Borak May 03, 2013 9:19 AM  

Vox or Ilk: Does anyone care to give an educated guess on where the 4-5 Americas may delineate?

Here's my guess from 4 years ago. I would adjust it a bit, but the rationale remains the same.

Anonymous ZhukovG May 03, 2013 9:21 AM  

I agree with Vox; While the EU will most likely break up, the individual European countries will continue on. Each country will eventually settle back into a government that fits their individual cultures.

The French will continue to fight each other. The Germans may well restore the Kaiser, as the Hohenzollerns are generally better liked than many politicians.

Most national cultures are not compatible with anarcho-libertarianism and as long as the people are satisfied with their government and can resist the urge to invade Poland, I say it's all good.

For the US things are sadly more grim. We need only our very own, "some fool thing in the Balkans", moment to send things into chaos. Chaos it will be, the allusion to White and Red Russians is apt, as areas of influence are not contiguous and contain large pockets of opposing forces.

Most major American cities will burn, and the suburbs will be battlegrounds. I can't even begin to predict an outcome, Reds, Browns and Blacks have guns too.

As for the Jews, the new Zionist rallying cry will be, "As soon as this damn plane lands, in Jerusalem!"

Anonymous Outlaw X May 03, 2013 9:22 AM  

They don't have to; a mere feigned "America" is more than sufficient for them to inflict their considerable damage. If you take a census of all the critters living in your household, and neglect to include the termites... well, in 56 months I can refer you to a decent contractor to rebuild what's left of it.

Were it not for the toxic presence of these malignant "nomads passing through", we'd all be just discussing what's for dinner tonight, instead of the advent of Civil War II.


Personally I consider the fear of Jews equivalent to the three year old scared of the monster under their bed. It is BS. You better worry about real monsters in the daytime, and not those who you believe hide at night under your bed.

A child will gladly get into the car with their parents and not think about the danger, yet will succumb to an irrational fear of non-existent monsters.

Anonymous VD May 03, 2013 9:23 AM  

Your commentary on the "four Americas" indicates that you think those groups possess an integrated worldview, as opposed to a bastardized intellect which holds many ideas founded on contradictory premises.

No, it does nothing of the sort. Your attempt at criticism is inept. Learn to criticize what is actually there, not your extrapolated straw version of it.

Here's the clue: use of terms like "indicates", "appears to", "implies", and "seems".

Anonymous whorefinder May 03, 2013 9:34 AM  

On the idea of assimilation....

Once upon a time in these United States, society took it upon itself to force immigrants to assimilate to the culture, with positive results. One only need look at the French-Acadian/Canadian example in New England.

When the French Acadians/Canadians made immigration inroads in New England, locals responded by removing the French culture from them. I remember reading that a certain small city in Rhode Island (I think Woonsocket) once had the third largest Mardi Gras celebration in the U.S. However, assimilationists stopped the parades. Classes in predominently French Acadians/Canadians were forced to be held English--no ESL bullshit. New Hampshire towns where the Frenchies dominated were shunned by businesses unless they gave up their language and adopted American customs.

The result? Almost total assimilation by French Acadians/Canadians. Think about it: people who grew up loyal to a nation just across the border had no lingering loyalty to it a generation later. They blended into the fabric of Americana. Who here even knows of any French Acadians/Canadian-descended ethnic people with problems with America?

It even gave us a very good, if twisted, science fiction writer in the form of Robert Cormier (who set his tales in Massachusetts towns with French Acadians/Canadian-dominated heritage).

The same could be done with Mexican immigrants today, but, for some reason, that's evil and racist. So many stay loyal to Mexico.

Go figure, right?

Anonymous Different T May 03, 2013 9:41 AM  

"No, it does nothing of the sort. Your attempt at criticism is inept. Learn to criticize what is actually there,"

If your concept of the "four Americas" is amorphous than it is a poor concept.

"not your extrapolated straw version of it."

You delineated four distinct groups. It is acknowledged that you later point out they are amorphous and shifting. If the "indicates" statement is an "extrapolated straw version," why did you make the distinctions.

The purpose of the post was to offer the suggestion that "wo(men) love the strong horse" is more descriptive than trying to delineate vastly unintegrated ideals and peoples (including your idealized whites) into distinct groups.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus May 03, 2013 9:52 AM  

But Vox, family values don't stop at the Rio Grande! Hispanics are natural conservatives!

Bah.

It's nice to see that even a squish like Byron York is finally figuring out that instead of trying to swing huge numbers of the Hispanic vote, the GOP would be better served trying to consolidate the white vote, even if won't come right out and *say* it that plainly. -

Anonymous RC May 03, 2013 9:53 AM  

Vox or Ilk: Does anyone care to give an educated guess on where the 4-5 Americas may delineate? It's actually something that's been on my mind for a while because I live and work in a sanctuary city in the Midwest." Ulmer

I agree with Nate that rural is better, Wyoming and Idaho. I like Kansas, conservative lawmakers, high-tech employment available on the east side of the state with Garmin, Sprint, etc. Wide-open country all around, with pockets of Amish and Mennonite communities in every direction who farm, garden, and sell their food, often not dependent upon fuel or modern farming techniques. Three hours away the Lake of the Ozarks has large amounts of seasonally-occupied housing that could be procured in a crisis, with a low government footprint and a reliable food source out the back door if you know how to fish, large Mennonite community just north and west. There is no diversity at the Lake.

Anonymous Mike M. May 03, 2013 9:53 AM  

I think any conflict would start as a Brown vs Black fight.

That being said, we need to remember that all the groups are jumbled together. This isn't 1861, where you could draw a neat line around the four major factions (Cotton States, Tobacco States, Corn States, and New England). This time, it's a county-vs-county, almost precinct-vs-precinct fight.

Anonymous Choam Nomsky May 03, 2013 9:54 AM  

98% of the time, a revolution or civil war ends up with a dictatorship.

This means we have a 2% chance at a new limited, constitutional government.

Or we hope and pray we get a General Augusto Pinochet as our new king.

I say our odds suck.

Anonymous Outlaw X May 03, 2013 9:56 AM  

You delineated four distinct groups. It is acknowledged that you later point out they are amorphous and shifting. If the "indicates" statement is an "extrapolated straw version," why did you make the distinctions.

The purpose of the post was to offer the suggestion that "wo(men) love the strong horse" is more descriptive than trying to delineate vastly unintegrated ideals and peoples (including your idealized whites) into distinct groups.


Speak English. A compiling of a string of big words without any common sense may seem like English but it isn't. And if you are going to use big words, use proper punctuation. Not that I care, but being a pretend intelligent ass it would help.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2013 9:57 AM  

Round III, not Round II.

The south will rise again.

Anonymous Johnycomelately May 03, 2013 9:59 AM  

Interesting that the break up of the US was first proposed by a Russian analyst.

I wonder what will happen to the petro dollar when the rest of the globe starts tapping shale coal and massive gas reserves? What will be the effect on the US of repatriated bonds and lower bond demands?

US austerity will surely result in civil strife.

Anonymous jay c May 03, 2013 10:03 AM  

I can't even begin to predict an outcome, Reds, Browns and Blacks have guns too.

Reds: lots of high-tech weaponry operated by trigger-happy buffoons with an affinity toward mass murder.

Browns: lots of low-tech, reliable weaponry operated by ruthless murderers with lots of practice using them against other people, but little discipline.

Blacks: some weapons, mostly cheap, unreliable hand guns operated by cruel, stupid, and impulsive thugs with lots of practice using them against other people, but no discipline or aim.

Whites: lots and lots and lots of high and low tech weaponry operated by undisciplined and disciplined people alike with the highest and lowest levels of skill and very little practice at using them against other people. They also have the tools and knowledge to make more weapons and ammunition. The materials might be harder to come by.

Anonymous Anonymous May 03, 2013 10:04 AM  

There is a genuine fifth group - the most well-armed and most dedicated to retaining their status . . .

Gummint.

jb

Anonymous clk May 03, 2013 10:04 AM  

Two america's --- rich and poor... and the rich have really good diversions for the poor (iphones, vidoeo games, porn, drugs...) to keep the poor distracted. The rest of the distinctions are purely so that the poor have someone else (themselves) to focus on.

Anonymous jay c May 03, 2013 10:06 AM  

Interesting that the break up of the US was first proposed by a Russian analyst.

It wasn't.

Anonymous jay c May 03, 2013 10:06 AM  

There is a genuine fifth group - the most well-armed and most dedicated to retaining their status . . .

Gummint.

jb


That would be the Reds.

Anonymous The other skeptic May 03, 2013 10:10 AM  

Almost 90% of US Americans own guns, in Germany only 30% do.

Ahhh, so that is where the 90% that wants stronger gun control comes from.

I think that number is wrong, and is perhaps based on the figure of 88.1 guns per 100 people. Most of the people I know who own guns have multiple guns. I would not be surprised if the actual number of people who own guns is less than half that.

Anonymous Godfrey May 03, 2013 10:11 AM  

"The Left" is full of naive unsophisticated people who neither understand human nature nor history. They think they remake the world even as the simply repeat its horrible miserable tragic history. They are children. They know nothing and understand nothing. They live in a world that only exists in their head.

Blogger El Borak May 03, 2013 10:11 AM  

Interesting that the break up of the US was first proposed by a Russian analyst.

Professor Panarin was arguably first, but unarguably the stupidest such analysis ever. Panarin utterly ignored all the major factors (race, religion/culture, history, language, and geography) in favor of just bisecting the map along state lines. He had Idaho joining China and Georgia joining Mexico, for pete's sake (his map is here).

While a breakup of the US is an inevitability in the medium to long run, it will never, ever, ever break up along the lines Panarin proposed.

Anonymous paradox May 03, 2013 10:11 AM  

I'm sure Ms. Hoyt has already been reported to the Palm Beach sheriff's department.

Choam Nomsky May 03, 2013 9:54 AM
Or we hope and pray we get a General Augusto Pinochet as our new king.


A General Francisco Franco would be nice.

Anonymous The other skeptic May 03, 2013 10:15 AM  

It is about time that someone married the concept of RPG7s with a little bit of electronics to make them more accurate and go exactly where you want them to go.

Anonymous RINO May 03, 2013 10:15 AM  

But Vox, family values don't stop at the Rio Grande! Hispanics are natural conservatives!

Go along with Rubio and pass amnesty.

Then they will like us ....

Anonymous the bandit May 03, 2013 10:18 AM  

@ Mudz

For what it's worth, the most convincing eschatological prophecies that I have read was Walid Shoebat's God's War on Terror. Spoiler: It's Islam.

Interpretations for the spirit of the antichrist being Catholicism or Communism have never been very convincing to me. It's far too much of an egocentric application. The same could be argued about Shoebat's interpretation, but I see the Bible as focused on the story of Israel, not Western liberty. It's at least worth a look if that's something that really interests you.

Anonymous the bandit May 03, 2013 10:18 AM  

*interpretation of eschatological

Blogger A May 03, 2013 10:19 AM  

I don't think war will happen, I think it's far more likely that some American version of Stalin or Mao will take over after people cling to their political parties as long as possible, and then people become so desperately poor they have nothing to lose. Until then, many armed men still have a lot to lose that they'll be willing to give up before they give up their lives. I just don't think we have the same type of backbone in white middle-class men today as yesteryear, who are willing to organize and fight for liberty (unlike desperate third-worlders).

I think the internet tends to exaggerate the amount of people who may be willing for war, just like how the media exaggerates the prevalence of gays in society.

Anonymous Gabriel B May 03, 2013 10:20 AM  

"There will be war, whether anyone truly desires it or not."

This is delusional, but still one level of delusion below Ms. Hoyt's fantasy's.

What is the Delusional Party going to revolt over? Healthcare for the less well off? The proposal that background checks for gun purchases be instituted? Low interest rates?

There is nothing in the way of real oppression to fight against?

You almost get the sense these delusionals want a fight because they think it is heroic and the current generation of delusionals feels like they need to engage in something heroic in order to justify their delusions.

Anonymous Johnny May 03, 2013 10:22 AM  

"If you disagree with any proposal, their first response is "I must not be making myself clear, because if I were, you'd agree with me." Persist in disagreement, and they say "You don't really believe that, you're just saying it to be contrary." Continue to speak out and they say "If you understand the issue but reject my solution, you must be evil." And once you're branded as evil, then polite society can shun you and drive you out. Indeed, they have an obligation to, lest your hateful speech corrupt others.

Democrats are no more tolerant than fundamental Islamists, they just shop at Whole Foods instead of the halal market."

What a great explanation of the progression of thought. In years of trying to "debate" with these people, I encounter this attitude all the time. They really do believe they're smarter than you. This is where you must use shock tactics to awaken them out of their intellectual trance. This is why the harsh rhetoric here is good training for dealing with the left.

You may disagree with him, but this is how Alex Jones flipped the narrative on Piers Morgan regarding gun control. The liberal left doesn't understand or respond to civility as they are looking down their noses at you. They don't even believe you are equal. You aren't entitled to an opinion and must be saved from yourself.

It's an emotional exchange, not a logical one. They can't be "won over" through logic. Passion is what will win the day so that at the very least, they know you will not be cowed by their elitism.

Anonymous Johnny May 03, 2013 10:26 AM  

"Healthcare rationing is only the beginning."

Do you have a smart meter? Electrical power rationing is next. Not a part of the in-crowd of government and politics? You don't get the same power if you're a pee-on serf. It's coming. Just look at the preconditioning they are doing with the show Revolution.

Anonymous paradox May 03, 2013 10:28 AM  

If the Senate passes amnesty for illegals, it will surely accelerate this inevitability. The Reds will have federal government power generationally locked and state vs federal pissing matches will start.

Anonymous Different T May 03, 2013 10:31 AM  

@Outlaw X

What was not understandable? I do not see any punctuation errors and the verbiage is appropriate.

In less precise terms:

If you are going to label groups, the groups should have distinctive features that are common throughout. As Vox points out, his groups have much overlap, interplay, and change (assertion: because the common feature of ALL the groups is that they are inconsistent and only held at the "members" convenience). In other words, a statement such as "Wo(men) love the strong horse" is more useful in describing why Americans behave as they do compared to ideological or racial categories.

Blogger El Borak May 03, 2013 10:37 AM  

Asher still has no chili.

Anonymous jay c May 03, 2013 10:38 AM  

"There will be war, whether anyone truly desires it or not."

This is delusional, but still one level of delusion below Ms. Hoyt's fantasy's.


War is as inevitable as death. The only questions are when and how.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus May 03, 2013 10:42 AM  

If a civil war were to occur and the USA broke up, things would probably play out along these lines:

The inner cities would probably revert fully into the extentions of Mexico and Africa that they already partially are. The blacks and the browns, where they exist in fairly even numbers, will battle each other for control (see what's already been happening in formerly black, now largely brown Compton in LA). Where one or the other has a preponderant majority (like blacks in Atlanta, or browns in Phoenix), they will eliminate and/or push out the other, forcing them to fend for themselves somewhere else.

The whites in these areas, mostly of Vox's "Red" variety (what would be called "Blue" per the conventional usage now) will either get out while the getting's good (if rich and able to), or else will suffer the consequences (if part of the white Democrat-voting underclass).

On the other hand, the rural and exurban areas will be the domain of Vox's "White" America ("Red" America per the conventional usage). Expect these rural and exurban whites to organise themselves into militia fairly rapidly. These are the folks who have the highest per capita firearms ownership (by far) of any group in the country, and have a general level of knowledge to use them. It is this group that hunts and it is this group that disproportionately joins the military, and thus will have a broader base of skills applicable to a civil war situation. Even those who weren't military will quickly learn skills that apply (like how to make napalam from soap and gasoline, etc.), and will still have significant weaponry at their disposal. As Steve Sailor likes to point out, whites are far and away the best at organising themselves - even those whites with no military training will still prove to be a cut above the blacks and browns who will eventually be coming.

Expect large swathes of America outside of the urban and suburban centres to become "no-go" zones for anyone not white or at least who isn't known in their communities as belonging.

The suburbs will be the real battleground because they are the most mixed. Expect suburbs surrounding the cores of large liberal cities to mostly lean to Vox's "Reds" or to see internecine strife on a large scale. Suburban areas which are really more just smallish cities in their own rights (such as, for cities in here in North Carolina, Burlington, Gastonia, Kannapolis, etc.) will lean "White." There would be large transfers of refugee populations between the two types of areas.

Now consider the logistical situation. Once long-distance transport stops, expect the cities to go hungry pretty quickly, even with the drastic reductions in population taking place. The old saying, "America is only three meals away from anarchy" will most definitely apply. The inner cities are the most densely populated parts of our country, and this population is largely of the sort that isn't real good at long-term planning. Unlike people out in the country and many in the suburbs who have been stockpiling food for years, the city people haven't. They will go hungry. They will kill each other off to steal each other's food.

And then they will begin to move outward to look for more food.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus May 03, 2013 10:42 AM  

Fortunately for the country folks, the other thing that inner city people don't generally tend to stockpile is ammunition. As long as dey gots a box for da "Nine," dey be good. Meanwhile, country people tend to have multiple firearms, and tons of ammo. People with 1500 rounds stockpiled are pikers in this field.

I think the threat to rural and exurban white America from the blacks and browns is generally overstated. The blacks and browns aren't good at organising for action. Plus, the number of "warriors" that they have is overstated. People always worry about gangs like the Crips and Bloods or MS-13. Those gangs are fearsome - when you're disarmed inner city people worrying about random, unforeseen violence. When it's MS-13 guys in their hoopties rolling out try to steal food from the country people and who are met by a couple of hundred rednecks with Bushmasters....not so fearsome. That is, if the homemeade Claymore's don't blow the browns off the road before they even get to the roadblocks.

No, the REAL danger and threat in a civil war/total breakdown scenario will be from the government, because it obviously has the far superior weapons. The country people will have to fight guerilla warfare to hope to have a chance.

But even then, it's not as if the government will be a monolith. Expect there to be a civil war within our own military (which is what is most likely to work to encourage foreigners to take advantage, per Hoyt's scenario above). Some police will join the side of the country people "Whites," mostly drawn from county sheriff's departments and state highway patrol agencies. The police that do remain loyal to the government - mostly municipal police department personnel - will not be very useful in reining in the country people. Police, notoriously, do not make very good soldiers when thrown into actual combat situations - they tend to be the first to break and run, historically.

Anonymous Razoraid May 03, 2013 10:46 AM  

Well, sponges have no backbone, so there's clearly no help to be had from them, especially when they are lying on the floor begging to be used as doormats.

Anonymous Outlaw X May 03, 2013 10:47 AM  

What was not understandable? I do not see any punctuation errors and the verbiage is appropriate.

You wrote:

" If the "indicates" statement is an "extrapolated straw version," why did you make the distinctions."

I don't have a PHD in English, but that sentence should have ended with a question mark and not a period. So even after I pointed it out and being about the suckiest guy in English here you couldn't find it?

Anonymous Godfrey May 03, 2013 10:49 AM  

Like the USSR, the USSA may end in with whimper, not a bang.

Anonymous Mike M. May 03, 2013 10:51 AM  

All this being said, I think the most likely scenarios are civil unrest, not secession.

The way I see things developing, the Welfare State will have to be radically cut back. This will lead to increased violence from the Welfare Class, possibly riots. Which will be put down by force. Very probably lethal force. This gets followed up by much closer supervision of the Welfare Class.

Anonymous Razoraid May 03, 2013 10:57 AM  

And needless to say, you won't be taking any lectures on the subject, although you will be learning the lessons of this perfect storm.

Anonymous Different T May 03, 2013 10:57 AM  

@Outlaw X

I did not see it.

Anonymous Hyperphrenius May 03, 2013 10:57 AM  

jay c May 03, 2013 10:03 AM

I can't even begin to predict an outcome, Reds, Browns and Blacks have guns too.

Reds: lots of high-tech weaponry operated by trigger-happy buffoons with an affinity toward mass murder.


A lot of the high-tech weaponry is in the hands of the military, and many in the military do not share the Reds' desire to Reddify the people. The military are not cops. Many of them have no desire to attack fellow Americans.

Also remember that the Reds in this country, should civil war break out, would get little foreign aid. The Reds in Russia were able to succeed in part because they had massive financial contributions coming to them from the west. As the economic situation is deteriorating in both Europe and the US, there wouldn't be much foreign aid to help the Reds hang on to power.

The Reds advantage is that they are much more organized, and control the media, and the police. If they decide to move preemptively against a rebellion, and enact a full police state, then they could try to use that power to quash dissent. Though given the number of Americans who are dissenting at this point, the police state would have a hard time quashing them all.

But even then the Reds wouldn't triumph. A civil war in this country would disrupt the centralized economy. This would harm the Reds far more than it would a bunch of rural Whites who are capable of at least providing vital necessities for themselves. Plus if the Reds' revenue stream of taxation were broken, they would have a hard time paying out entitlements to their Brown and Black allies, which would disally them, further creating civil unrest, weakening the position of the Reds.

The only hope the Reds have is that most Whites will keep holding off on rebelling until they are secure in their power. This might forestall an immediate civil war, for a time, until things become so bad that the Whites feel they have nothing left to lose, and rebel. Either that, or the Reds finally realize that their system isn't going to work, and abandon it in favor of something less retarded.

Blogger El Borak May 03, 2013 11:03 AM  

Asherr: Vox is certainly ging to delete this but your comment is too amusing...The reason I make this comment is out of irritation that you are conflating me with someone who is obviously not me.

So which is it? Or are you really the manner of person who gets irritated and amused by exactly the same thing?

Perhaps it would help if I claimed that Asher is not a person but a class:
Attribute 1 of objects in class Asher: use ink* for the same purpose as does an octopus
Attribute 2 of objects in class Asher: no chili.

Asherr is an instance of class Asher. So is Different T

* often virtual ink for objects in class Asher

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 11:10 AM  

El Borak, must you encourage the fellow? We were only just rid of his incessant chants of "straddle" and "category error".

Anonymous Asherr May 03, 2013 11:12 AM  

@ElBorak

Both but on different levels. It's musing to wa tch rabbits like you hopping around being rabbits. It's irritating that you have the option to be something other than rabbits but decline that opportunity.

Anonymous Outlaw X May 03, 2013 11:16 AM  

@Outlaw X

I did not see it.


@Different T

Why don't you just admit you were wrong? There is nothing wrong with being wrong as long as you admit it. I have been wrong many times. Do you not see the error? My grammar sucks, but I don't pretend to be a writer, neither do I pretend to be an intellectual. I just know stuff and don't try to crawl up the back of my betters in certain subjects.

Anonymous ODG May 03, 2013 11:17 AM  

In all these discussions about the breakup of America, I don't see people mentioning the issues of ports and oil/refineries. Since the coasts are firmly in the hands of the Reds, Texas/Louisiana will be a big battleground for the Whites to keep ports open (and own the refining capacity), against the Browns who want the territory, and the Reds who want the oil.

Blogger El Borak May 03, 2013 11:19 AM  

Loki: El Borak, must you encourage the fellow?

Perhaps not, but I do think it would be interesting to further define class Asher, as there are plenty of other attributes that the instances share.

Anonymous John Regan May 03, 2013 11:19 AM  

"..the post-1962 mass apostasy that followed Vatican II"?

Interesting. Under-discussed topic, methinks.

Anonymous ODG May 03, 2013 11:20 AM  

Edit: The Deep South has ports, granted, but not the oil and refining capacity.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 11:21 AM  

Asher still demonstrates a very interesting memory, one that apparently self-edits to his own advantage.

I suppose it is a survival mechanism. Should he admit to himself that he is as great a tedious, pompous fool as everyone else knows him to be, he might die of pure embarrassment.

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic May 03, 2013 11:27 AM  

Vox has already mentioned this: do not count out European nationalism. If Muslims don't end up taking over the place, then the other scenario is Muslims jump into the Meditteranean and start swimming home.

Europeans remain deeply nationalistic. If they weren't, they would have voted themselves into a political union instead of a half-assed currency union.

White America is a difficult read. They are deracinated Christians for the most part, and as such are the most tolerant, pacified, fair-minded folks around. As has also been pointed out, they have guns and tech but are long out of practice using them against the other teams. They have a HUGE psychological block against civil disobedience, much less actual warfare.

Historically though, once you get them going they slaughter everything in their path.

The tipping point may never come. Maybe the real economy will stay strong enough. Maybe the other teams will step back from the brink. White America won't grab the pitchforks and torches until they lose all faith in the system, as with the Soviet Bloc. We are not there yet, but we are sprinting hard and rounding second.

Gamechangers that could accelerate the process:

1. Good old-fashioned plague (antibiotic-resistant)
2. Too many people competing for too little water and living space, and some random violence lights the fuse
3. The T-bill bubble pops (that would wipe out half the economy right there)

Interesting times.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 11:38 AM  

Perhaps not, but I do think it would be interesting to further define class Asher, as there are plenty of other attributes that the instances share.

Indeed, do let's.

Of the subspecies of common troll (Discursus interruptus), the North American Asher (Discursus interruptus egocentris) is fortunately rare. However, its loud, repetitive call and gaudy plumage give it the illusion of a much more ubiquitous presence. Indeed, it can be difficult to note the existence of anything else over its monotonous, elaborate, and yet meaningless cries.

The North American Asher feeds on confusion, attention, and the blood of infants. It acquires the first two by attaching itself to a passing conversation, redirecting it to topics of interest to only the Asher, and draining the intelligence from it.

The Asher is distinguishable from other trolls by its inability to admit when it is wrong. It will avoid this admission by several means, including: redefining commonly-used words; splitting hairs in order to reframe demonstrably correct assertions; ignoring that its arguments were sufficiently answered; and rewriting history in order to make itself look larger and more reproductively fit than it actually is.


/passes to El Borak/

Blogger El Borak May 03, 2013 11:53 AM  

The North American Asher, like its close cousin, the suburban Feminist (termagantus rotundus) is often confused with the common seagull, in that it swoops, squeals, craps all over everything, and loves french fries. However, unlike t.rotundus, the Asher does not travel in packs, for even it cannot long stand the presence of a discursus interruptus.

Anonymous Roundtine May 03, 2013 11:53 AM  

The entire globe is one giant Yugoslavia suppressed by American power. Have you seen news about Chinese troops moving into Indian territory? Pick your fault-line, they will all explode. Sunni-vs-Shia with nukes? Good luck with that one.

Anonymous Noah B. May 03, 2013 12:15 PM  

"But neither are their governments. Even the German military is tiny. The Bundeswehr has 66,000 soldiers. That's a smaller military force than the combined NYPD, CPD, and LAPD!"

Keep an eye on them though. Their ranks could swell quickly, and if they do, it means they'll have the most modern equipment available.

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic May 03, 2013 12:17 PM  

The entire globe is one giant Yugoslavia suppressed by American power. Have you seen news about Chinese troops moving into Indian territory? Pick your fault-line, they will all explode.

Yes. Very good metaphor. Some other under-reported conflicts:

Hezbollah is chomping at the bit to engage in Syria, and Christians in the villages are beginning to align with the Kurds.

China routinely stretches its legs in Siberia.

I've long thought Germany and Japan could only be held down for so long. They are both way more insular and arrogant (not necessarily in a bad way) than they put on for their US occupiers. Either or both could one day tell the US military to start packing its bags.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 12:19 PM  

The North American Asher also shares in common with the Suburban Feminist its nesting habits. Rather than building its own, the Asher seeks out the nests of larger, more intelligent birds of vaguely similar plumage and attempts to usurp them. It then proceeds to foul the nest, pick it apart straw by straw and use said straws to construct strawmen, and emit its raucous cry in an effort to advertise its presence and assert superiority.

Two results are common: either the original residents of the nest are annoyed into departing, leaving the Asher alone in its new habitat, or the Asher is driven out. In the latter case, the cry of the Asher reverts to its "danger" signal: "Jezzie! Jezzie! Jezzie!" The Asher, in a display of conditioning, will resume this cry upon coming into contact with anything reminiscent of its eviction.

Anonymous Sojourner May 03, 2013 12:20 PM  

Quote: The result? Almost total assimilation by French Acadians/Canadians. Think about it: people who grew up loyal to a nation just across the border had no lingering loyalty to it a generation later. They blended into the fabric of Americana. Who here even knows of any French Acadians/Canadian-descended ethnic people with problems with America?

I can attest to this being French Acadian/Canadian myself. Though my parents spoke French that I can recall when I was young they no longer speak it and are perhaps the most "American" you can get nowadays. They moved from New Hampshire to California and never looked back. Personally I have no freakin clue what being French Acadian/Canadian means as the best I can muster is I'm white. I know of no culture nor identity beyond the fact that that is my ethnicity. Sucks in some ways because "American" culture doesn't really exist either so thus my identity is just existence itself, and being a born again Christian. I'll totally admit that the fact that I don't have a background really makes me envious of other groups that are more together (I am SURROUNDED by Filipinos) but it is what it is.

Anonymous Sojourner May 03, 2013 12:29 PM  

Also...wars and rumors of wars. Any way you cut it we are as ripe for the "Final days" as any time before if not more. So divided US? Sure. A returning Christ? Even more sure really.

Anonymous Godfrey May 03, 2013 12:39 PM  

The typical “Leftist” suffers from pretense of knowledge syndrome. Since he falsely believes he possesses all knowledge, usually the result of obtaining a piece of paper from a paper selling institution, he lacks an inquisitive mind. He is incapable of questioning or even seriously defending his convictions.

Blogger BetaMax May 03, 2013 12:41 PM  

Nate and Ilk,

There have been a lot of questions about what to do now or when things go south. As Christian men with some forethought and concern for other families, can we start a discussion somewhere to share wisdom? I, for one, really want to know what Nate, Vox, and others think. I have started work on immigration to Chile and New Zealand, hired immigration lawyers, and so forth. So I have some bits to share for those that care. I am also moving to Idaho in case leaving the US turns out to not be necessary. I pray that it will not, as I love my country.

Thanks!

Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 12:41 PM  

Ms Hoyt seems to think no one is "speaking up" against...well...against whatever it is she doesn't like. I suspect what she doesn't like is democracy. But the fact is, you've got a whole lot of speaking up going on by opponents of everything.

Ms. Hoyt can't possibly be wary of coming shooting. I know this because it's clear that she is semi-intelligent. I suspect she's just tired of democracy not working out to support her every crazy notion of what ought to be.

But crazy is crazy. She and others think they are being overrun by "leftists" and "commies". But look at America's governing institutions on a state and local level. It's not as though Democrats or Secularists or "Leftists" dominate.

Crazy is crazy. I suspect Ms. Hoyt merely just got a new gun and wants to play.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 12:50 PM  

And on cue to demonstrate Godfrey's assertions, Telluride arrives and offers as his counterpoint:

"Nuh-UH!"

Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 12:52 PM  

"And on cue to demonstrate Godfrey's assertions, Telluride arrives and offers as his counterpoint:

"Nuh-UH!"

There isn't much of a counterpoint to offer when the claim boils down to: "Boo Hoo....I'm not getting what I want."

Anonymous Roundtine May 03, 2013 1:00 PM  

I suspect what she doesn't like is democracy.

Only idiots like democracy. Why did the Founders make a President if they didn't find some good in monarchy? Otherwise they would have only created a house and senate, and maybe not even a senate.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 1:03 PM  

How, pray, is she "not getting her way" if "[i]t's not as though Democrats or Secularists or "Leftists" dominate"?

You cannot claim in one breath that your political opponents have all the power and also that your political opponents are upset at being thwarted.

...Stay, no, you can, but it outs you as either an imbecile or a charlatan.

Blogger Giraffe May 03, 2013 1:04 PM  

I've been watching the PBS civil war documentary. I hope we don't have to go through that hell again.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter May 03, 2013 1:05 PM  

Perhaps someone is getting ready:

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/atf-offers-reward-in-red-lodge-explosives-theft/article_ed989256-9bbf-5f2e-b5b4-5fc7bd513532.html

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 1:06 PM  

I hope we don't have to go through that hell again.

Well, you could all kneel to me. That would obviate the need for bloodshed quite neatly.

Anonymous DonReynolds May 03, 2013 1:12 PM  

The US military did not play a significant role in the Civil War, mostly spent that time out West dealing with the Indian unrest. I expect the US military will not play a significant role should there be yet another Civil War.

Black, White, Red and Brown are not evenly distributed across the country. The divisions are regional, as they always have been. The last two elections were a good reflection of how things will shake out. Go ahead, use the last four or five elections, if you are curious. Not much variation from one election to the next by the states. Regional differences are real and not imaginary.

The question is not whether the South will make a move for independence. That is an unavoidable train wreck. The REAL QUESTION IS... How much of the rest of the country will they take with them? Personally, I would hope none of it. Let them vote with their feet if they want to be with the South. But I am sure human nature does not work that way.

Do not worry about the major cities or who lives in them. They are indefensible and almost nobody will live there once food cannot get through, and there is no electric power, and the water treatment facilities are either disabled or captured. The Black, Brown and Red who live in these major cities should be concerned. They are surrounded in depth on all sides by armed people with decades of accumulated resentment. Those major cities with port facilities may be able to evacuate some of the elite, but not many.

Anonymous Beau May 03, 2013 1:31 PM  

OT

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Galatians 2:20

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2013 1:32 PM  

> Its the very last thing to try when all else has failed.

Please try explaining that to dh.

Anonymous willneverpostagain May 03, 2013 1:47 PM  

If Interstate Travel and Shipping is disrupted, the cities, where food is not grown, will be hungry. Assuming the government is incapacitated, the g-men will simply steal what they can for themselves, much like they are already doing, and either hide out or try to assimmilate. The city folk will head out for the burbs, then the countryside, where the food is grown. Pray that the country folk can defend themselves. If not, the city folk, who know zero about growing food for the most part, will go through the food stocks like locusts, not bothering to plant. It will be the city slickers vs. burbs/countryside alliance. I know a LOT of hunters who live in both the burbs and countryside. My money is on them. They use rifles, not a pistol cocked 90 degrees from vertical. The wild card, is of course, the military. Most of the fighting soldiers are abroad right now. At some point they will be coming home. There will be some general who sees the prudence in protecting the food stocks, and when that happens, goodbye feral folk!

Anonymous jay c May 03, 2013 1:51 PM  

Hyperphrenius... A lot of the high-tech weaponry is in the hands of the military, and many in the military do not share the Reds' desire to Reddify the people. The military are not cops. Many of them have no desire to attack fellow Americans....

True. I left them out because I honestly don't know what to think. They appear to be actively pushing patriotic Americans out of the military, so within 10-20 years they might be thoroughly red (or blue, depending on which color coordinated key we're using today). Today, I think they're a wild card.

Anonymous Different T May 03, 2013 1:52 PM  

@Outlaw X

I was wrong; the sentence ending "why did you make the distinctions" should have ended in a question mark and was a punctuation error.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis May 03, 2013 1:59 PM  

Now consider the logistical situation. Once long-distance transport stops, expect the cities to go hungry pretty quickly, even with the drastic reductions in population taking place. The old saying, "America is only three meals away from anarchy" will most definitely apply. The inner cities are the most densely populated parts of our country, and this population is largely of the sort that isn't real good at long-term planning. Unlike people out in the country and many in the suburbs who have been stockpiling food for years, the city people haven't. They will go hungry. They will kill each other off to steal each other's food

This is one of the reasons why I think that the US will transform in the same way that Republican Rome transformed into Imperial Rome. The years after the Social war in 98 B.C to the rise of August in 32. B.C were the filled with civil wars of a dying republic and at times, in the case of the spanish provinces, there was even temporary secession.

When all is said and done the US possesses an amazing amount of military power. And one thing that I don't think is lost on anyone is that outside of some of the highest echelons in the military most of the fighting forces posses the same world view as those who occupy America's heartlands. That leaves a bloc with a lot of armed Americans supported by a very powerful military force. In my mind, if there is a civil war it will end with a new imperial order. Most people, right leaning included, simply want stability, and if there is a force strong enough to provide that stability it will be backed ultimately. I could easily be wrong, but I expect some sort of American Augustus in our future. Wrong or right, I am not looking forward to either fragmentation or imperial order.

Blogger El Borak May 03, 2013 2:00 PM  

They appear to be actively pushing patriotic Americans out of the military...

Perhaps, but it's a two-edged sword for them, because for the most part only patriotic Americans join the military. When others join it's because they need a career - meaning they are essentially mercs, status seekers, or power-point makers.

Members of the latter group may have 37 pieces of flair each,* but they do not make much of a military.

* Ask yourself sometime how Nork generals earned those rows of ribbons.

Anonymous nick digger May 03, 2013 2:06 PM  

@Concerned Rabbit Hunter

i bet that was an inside job, by an "underpaid, underappreciated" federal wage collector.

Anonymous ZhukovG May 03, 2013 2:19 PM  

A breakdown of infrastructure will cause mass starvation that will make the Holodomor look like a Weight Watcher's meeting.

This will not just effect the cities and suburbs. Your average country person may be able to find the local Walmart without a GPS, but that's about it for their self sufficiency.

Anonymous Paul Durow May 03, 2013 2:22 PM  

Somewhat related.

Anonymous Different T May 03, 2013 2:22 PM  

@ZhukovG

The idealization of the so-called "Whites" is awesome.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 2:27 PM  

My guess is that when push comes to shove, the Browns will split, and a large percentage of them (my guess is somewhere around 50%) will actually side with the Whites. Unlike the Reds and the Blacks, the Browns for the most part don't nourish an insane pathological hate-filled grudge against the Whites. They may dislike Whites but they don't 'hate' them with an abiding rabid craziness the way Blacks and Reds and Jews do, and deep down they know they can't really get along without Whites. They're happy, for oppportunistic reasons, to play the the anti-White grievance card whenever they think it'll get them free stuff, but a large number of them are just mostly normal working people who want peace and quiet, family, and a reasonable modicum of prosperity. There are the gangstas, the activists and the silly shrieking academic types amongst them, but for the most part the Browns are neither crazy nor stupid. A surprising number of them will side with the only other party in this ostensible conflict which is neither crazy nor stupid: Whites.

Granted anecdotal evidence doesn't count for much, but I notice more and more Mexicans speaking English to me with completely American accents, not a trace of annoying naco tang.

Overheard on a bus not so long ago, two Mexican twelve year olds...

KID #1: So, dude, what bands do you like?
KID #2: Oh, man. I like Pink Floyd. And Black Sabbath. And Blondie.
KID #1: Yeah, Blondie, man! "Parallel Lines" is awesome!

Anonymous ZhukovG May 03, 2013 2:37 PM  

@scoobius dubious

What do you consider 'not long so ago'?

Anonymous ZhukovG May 03, 2013 2:38 PM  

oops, 'not so long ago'.

Anonymous Dan in Tx (O'RELE!) May 03, 2013 2:42 PM  

I tend to agree with Scoobius here. My personal experience among the browns (no short supply in Tx) is that they, generally speaking of course, hate HATE the blacks. The whites? Meh, they might try to steal the white's stuff or hustle you if you look like a sucker but most don't have that hate whitey attitude going. Push comes to shove, I put my money on the browns siding in large part with the whites, especially if it's a situation of choosing sides with either whites or blacks. Again, I can only speak to general attitudes in Tx. Other locations such as Cali may be a different story.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 2:45 PM  

Coupla years ago.

I think a lot of kids nowadays are hip to the fact that contemporary pop music really, REALLY sucks, and they're looking to the past to find something that actually appeals to them on a more artistic level. And Youtube has made a lot of stuff available for free. If they know where and how to look, kids can now explore the musical past in a way I couldn't when I was 12; I had to f#ckin save up for weeks to buy one Talking Heads record and when I got to the store I had to take a wild guess about whether Fear of Music or Buildings and Food would be better. Eventually bought both, but man, it took a while.

From when I was 12:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IsGUrHNMSM





Anonymous ZhukovG May 03, 2013 2:51 PM  

The only reason I asked was that I remember that Blondie record from High School. It's an antique...like me.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 2:53 PM  

I was in a restaurant in Southern California about four years ago, and it was sort of a chain American restaurant in a blue-collar Mexican neighborhood. I was stuck there working on something, and I needed something quick to eat, so I walked in and got some standard-issue food: decent, not bad not good. Everybody in the place was Mexican, and the level of naco Spanish yapping became intolerable so I left after only eating half of my food. (Christ, that is one irritating accent; recently I saw a European Spanish movie with actual European Spaniards speaking Spanish dialogue, and was reminded that in its essence Spanish is a beautiful language, but Mexicans absolutely MURDER it.)

Anyway I left, and I was walking down the street, when one of the Mexican kitchen guys came running up after me, and started walking beside me. After a moment or two, he says, in totally American English, no accent...

KITCHEN DUDE: Didn't you like the food?
MYSELF ("PLEASE GO AWAY"): It was fine, I'm just running late.

pause.

KITCHEN DUDE: You know... we really DO want everything to be excellent.

Anonymous Clay May 03, 2013 3:11 PM  

With his preoccupation with all this kneeling business, I'm beginning to think Loki is just out to cop a BJ.

Anonymous cheddarman May 03, 2013 3:16 PM  

I wonder if there would be a market for a video game "2030: American Civil War." With the darkening social mood, there might be an opportunity for someone to design one of these and make some $$$.

You choose a faction, and have to secure enough resources (by whatever means necessary) to become viable in the short run, and a functioning country in the long run. You have to control enough productive economic assets to make or trade for all of your economic needs. You "win" when Germany, Brazil, Russia and China establish diplomatic relations with your faction.

Anonymous Sigyn May 03, 2013 3:47 PM  

With his preoccupation with all this kneeling business, I'm beginning to think Loki is just out to cop a BJ.

Nah, I alrea--

...

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. STOP STARING AT ME.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 3:49 PM  

Damn me, now she runs out of work to do...

Anonymous Dan in Tx May 03, 2013 4:00 PM  

Speaking out=you're a domestic terrorist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feHbP4k_tdk

Blogger ajw308 May 03, 2013 4:01 PM  

My guess is that when push comes to shove, the Browns will split, and a large percentage of them (my guess is somewhere around 50%) will actually side with the Whites.
Like the Browns that side with the Whites on voting?

Tribalism will play a powerful role when sides are picked.

Anonymous Herman the German May 03, 2013 4:10 PM  

Tribalism will play a powerful role when sides are picked.


--Yeah, but he's got a point. Eventually, practicality may well take precedence over tribalism, at least for the 50% about whom we're speaking.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 4:25 PM  

"Like the Browns that side with the Whites on voting?"

Voting and fighting have very different costs and benefits. And they occur within very different contexts.

Right now Browns vote Red because it's easy, and they're still being offered free stuff, plundered from Whites. Reds have no other real power than to arrogate resources which aren't theirs and then redistribute them as plunder to their clients. Reds certainly can't fight for shit, and won't even try; Ari and Zvi will expect Diego and DeShawntravious to do the shooting FOR them, while they go to law school and write op-ed columns. And then, when the Whites start shooting back, with far greater accuracy than was promised, Diego will begin to reconsider. DeShawntravious won't, because he's crazy and feral and stupid, and motivated by sheer animal rage (and dat sweet, sweeeeet white pussy!). But Diego will only stay onside with the Reds so long as that's the side that butters his bread; when the butter runs out, Diego will think about his options. Unlike Ari, Zvi, and DeShawntravious, Diego actually knows how to DO real, actual stuff. So do Whites.

Hmmm.


Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 4:25 PM  

"There are the Reds of progressive, secular America, there are the Whites of traditional religious America, there are the Browns of third world America, and there are the Blacks of feral America."

This just isn't even close to understanding the demographic and ideological breakdown to look at where partisan divides are concerned. A much better understanding of modern America looks like this:

1. Pro-Freedom/Progressive
Urban/Suburban, young, white/minorities, middle class, educated

2. Immigrant
Suburban/rural, family values, strivers

3. Religio/Facist
Rural, Southern, partly educated, middle income

4. Top Earners
Progressive, opportunists, entrepreneurial

Trying to understand America from a racial perspective is very 1970s and makes little sense today. The idea of a race war makes no sense whatsoever as whites have no interest in actually battling anyone.

Anonymous Dan in Tx May 03, 2013 4:38 PM  

Telluride: "1. Pro-Freedom/Progressive"

The oxymoron, it burns!

Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 4:41 PM  

"You cannot claim in one breath that your political opponents have all the power and also that your political opponents are upset at being thwarted."

Agreed. Which explains why it was not claimed.

Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 4:42 PM  

"Telluride: "1. Pro-Freedom/Progressive"

The oxymoron"

You don't understand America.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 4:45 PM  

Tribalism? Well, for some... and while it's still easy.

Latinos are fleeing the Southwest and trying to infest the Deep South, the Northern cities, and the PNW, because the Southwest is full of TOO MANY LATINOS!

And they know it. They're not a very bright people, but unlike negroes, who are just so pathetic it's ridiculous, they are bright enough to know and understand their limitations, and work within them. They're like the Irish in that way: they know what they can and can't do, and they set about to consolidate a power base founded on what they know they CAN do. If the Jews had such modest self-knowledge instead of such pathological narcissism and venom, we wouldn't have to have this conversation at all, we'd just be talking about what to have for lunch with all our vibrant friends.

Mestizos need to be near white people to live well, and they know it; the problem right now, worldwide, is that EVERYBODY wants to be near white people, especially ludicrous negroes, and there just aren't enough white people to go around. This is why segregation is going to become an existential necessity: not because non-whites are bad (they have their failings, but so does everybody) but because, given the present mechanics, white people are going to become extinct if they do not self-segregate.

They say it isn't possible to create a time machine, but I can make a time machine for you, easy: eliminate white people, and the human race will travel back in time at least ten thousand years.

Anonymous Vic May 03, 2013 4:47 PM  

OT : @ Mutz & Bandit

I tend to agree with Walid Shoebat's ideas somewhat, but I see Islam as being the harlot of 18, (claiming the God of Abraham while circling a rock) who attempts to control (what the rider of any beast does) the world destroying Marxist wave that will come to hate and destroy her later on. The Marxist just haven't found their global Kim Un yet.

Kind of like what we see happening at the Marxist UN today.

On topic:

It was the attempted confiscation of arms that started our first fight with George. I wonder if history will repeat on this issue?

Anonymous 11B May 03, 2013 4:48 PM  

Outlaw X wrote, "Personally I consider the fear of Jews equivalent to the three year old scared of the monster under their bed. It is BS. You better worry about real monsters in the daytime, and not those who you believe hide at night under your bed."


Hyperphrenius wrote, "Also remember that the Reds in this country, should civil war break out, would get little foreign aid. The Reds in Russia were able to succeed in part because they had massive financial contributions coming to them from the west."

It is true the Reds in Russia received "foreign" aid because it often came from the monsters of NYC. Of course if such a fight were to take place today in the USA, our Reds would receive such aid too. Though it would not be "foreign" since it too would come from the monsters of NYC.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 4:56 PM  

"Personally I consider the fear of Jews equivalent to the three year old scared of the monster under their bed."

Personally you can consider whatever you like, but nobody will mistake you for Mister Perceptivo. No one is talking about "fear of the Jews". No one is talking about hating them either. Some of us are talking about identifying, analyzing, and criticizing them and their behavior, and its effects, which we judge to be ill. If you don't want outsize criticism, well, then don't strive constantly for outsize influence. Things have a way of happening in the world; and if you're the one who insists, INSISTS, on doing them, well, when they go wrong, then guess what. Armenians are often a market-dominant minority, but do you see any sane people constantly bringing up Armenians? Why not? Oh, right, I forgot.

Blogger tz May 03, 2013 5:00 PM  

Don't think of them as the four Americas, think of them as the four warrens with rabbits of different color.

Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 5:05 PM  

"Some of us are talking about identifying, analyzing, and criticizing them and their behavior, and its effects, which we judge to be ill."

Envy...pure and simple.

Jews have a culture that values education and success and family values. But that's a problem for you, for some reason. And we know what reason that is.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 5:14 PM  

"Envy...pure and simple."

Hi, Tad! I've missed you around here!

What would I do without belittling, sneering, non-argumentative Jewish ass-hat cackling to brighten my day?

Cheerio!








Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 5:18 PM  

"What would I do without belittling, sneering, non-argumentative Jewish ass-hat cackling to brighten my day?"

Very green you look.

Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 5:19 PM  

@ Telluride

Why is it that married men with children under the age of eighteen so overwhelmingly vote Republican? Why is it that single mothers so overwhelmingly vote Democratic? Therefore, clearly the Progressive vision is powered by family structure, specifically, bastardy.

If the Progressive vision is good and is advanced by increasing levels of bastardy then doesn't it logically follow that the best society is one in which children don't know their fathers and all their economic needs are met by the state? That IS the logical consequence of the Progressive premise.

Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 5:22 PM  

@ Telluride

Envy...pure and simple.

Jews have a culture that values education and success


No, Ashkenazi Jews are the product of an unintentional eugenics program over the past several centuries and this explains the overrepresentation of Jews in positions of wealth and influence. Most of my personal interactions with Jews have been pleasant but there is a distinct, and rather largeish, minority of Jews in the West who have an absolute hatred of white gentiles - I have encountered it, personally.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 5:31 PM  

"Very green you look."

You may wish to consult your ophthalmologist. And also, your coloring consultant.

Don't worry, I know some nice Jewish doctors who can fix 'em both for you. Such a deal!



Anonymous cheddarman May 03, 2013 5:33 PM  

Armenians are often a market-dominant minority, but do you see any sane people constantly bringing up Armenians? Why not? Oh, right, I forgot. -Scoobius Doobius

I will bring up Armenians...the Kardashian sisters are dirty hoes!!!

sincerely

cheddarman

Blogger Nate May 03, 2013 5:34 PM  

"There have been a lot of questions about what to do now or when things go south. As Christian men with some forethought and concern for other families, can we start a discussion somewhere to share wisdom? I, for one, really want to know what Nate, Vox, and others think. I have started work on immigration to Chile and New Zealand, hired immigration lawyers, and so forth. So I have some bits to share for those that care. I am also moving to Idaho in case leaving the US turns out to not be necessary. I pray that it will not, as I love my country.

Thanks!"

Me and Vidad are going to be discussing this very thing tonight on the ATF show. Check my blog. The show starts at 9 central. Give us a call or just listen in and tell us what you think.

Blogger Nate May 03, 2013 5:38 PM  

bloggerblaster.blogspot.com

That's me. Link to the show is in the ATF post.

Anonymous Niall May 03, 2013 5:44 PM  

"What is the Delusional Party going to revolt over? Healthcare for the less well off? The proposal that background checks for gun purchases be instituted? Low interest rates?"

I think everyone has their own personal idea of how much they are willing to put up with from the intrusive (and increasingly tyrannical) State, but there are certain provocations that large numbers of citizens would find unbearable enough to resist, such as: censorship of the Internet; mandatory gun confiscation; mandatory food and energy rationing; declaration of martial law (though this might also entail many of the previous items on the list); punishment for the expression of unpopular political opinions; an overt attempt to destroy the family unit; forcible suppression of the Christian religion; etc. I also happen to think that most of these provocations are, at most, only decades away from being implemented -- at least if current trends are any indication.

Anonymous jay c May 03, 2013 5:46 PM  

Pro-Freedom != Progressive

The two are not compatible.

Anonymous Sigyn May 03, 2013 5:54 PM  

1. Pro-Freedom/Progressive
Urban/Suburban, young, white/minorities, middle class, educated

2. Immigrant
Suburban/rural, family values, strivers

3. Religio/Facist
Rural, Southern, partly educated, middle income

4. Top Earners
Progressive, opportunists, entrepreneurial


((Lessee. Educated, family values, rural, entrepreneurial...

((HOLY CRAP, LoA and I are EVERYTHING!!!))

Anonymous Niall May 03, 2013 6:04 PM  

I should add to my above list of "unbearable provocations" something that is now seemingly being discussed in earnest by the elites: the complete abolition of border controls and of all immigration restrictions (lax as they may be at present) in Western countries. The resulting Camp of the Saints-type nightmare scenario, with hundreds of millions of Asians, Africans, and mestizos suddenly flooding the West, would be the final death- knell for our civilization.

Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 6:06 PM  

"No, Ashkenazi Jews are the product of an unintentional eugenics program over the past several centuries and this explains the overrepresentation of Jews in positions of wealth and influence. Most of my personal interactions with Jews have been pleasant but there is a distinct, and rather largeish, minority of Jews in the West who have an absolute hatred of white gentiles - I have encountered it, personally."

If it's "unintentional" it's not really a "program", is it. But no, we can't for a minute contemplate the possibility that like many asian cultures, the jewish culture might value rigorous educational values and success? Classy!!

You know what, I've encountered a number of religious white folks who were dumb as a hammer. From this I conclude that a largish minority of religious white folks are dumb as hammers.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard May 03, 2013 6:06 PM  

"You cannot claim in one breath that your political opponents have all the power and also that your political opponents are upset at being thwarted."

Agreed. Which explains why it was not claimed.


Oh, of course, Tad, of course.

Now, had I more time and were not certain you would soon be duly flushed by Vox--as is the fate of such as you--I should be happy to engage you yet again in a duel of word-twisting.

Alas, my consort informs me that we have a film to watch. You, little fellow, are less interesting to me than Space Mutiny, whatever that is.

Anonymous Telluride May 03, 2013 6:11 PM  

"Now, had I more time and were not certain you would soon be duly flushed by Vox--as is the fate of such as you--I should be happy to engage you yet again in a duel of word-twisting."

Run along, Child.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 6:25 PM  

@Sneery: "like many asian cultures, the jewish culture might value rigorous educational values and success"

And yet, unlike the Jews, the Asians actually worked hard and built their own cultures and civilizations for themselves, brick by brick; they didn't piggyback off of someone else's culture, then sneer at the poor suckers for letting them hitch a ride while they rifled through the mark's pockets.

You'd have to ask that great Jewish poet William Blake for the reasons behind this, I suppose, but by some odd quirk of sentiment we seem to respect and fear the Tiger. We have nothing but revulsion and contempt for the Tapeworm.

As for why that is, I suppose you could consult many hard-working Jewish theorists of the Frankfurt School, who value education. Rigorously. You might even say that the rigorous structure of their structural hermeneutics informs a critique of racist anti-semitism, which is structurally subverted by the contradictions of late capitalism. Or you could just say, Jew On The Make, and you might be nearer the mark.






Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 6:28 PM  

@ Telluride

If it's "unintentional" it's not really a "program",

By this standard, there is no such thing as "wealth distribution" since there is no intentiona distributing agent.

What you are doing is using childish word games to obscure the reality that Jews are overrepresented in positions of wealth and influence because of their genetic evolutionary history. BTW, there certainly *is/was* a program in which the most clever jewish individuals outreproduced the less clever and the traits that foster Jewish success is a product of that cultural program.

So, yes, Ashkenazi Jewish influence is the product of a eugenics program. BTW, this is the only theory of Jewish success that doesn't reduce to "Jews choose better values than anyone else" type of handwaving. This theory has been endorsed by the Steven Pinker (jew) and Gregory Cochran (genticist and devout Christian).

like many asian cultures, the jewish culture might value rigorous educational values and success

So, I guess you would also agree that the exact opposite in blacks is the cause of their absolute lack of success. I'll bet you don't ...

, I've encountered a number of religious white folks who were dumb as a hammer. From this I conclude that a largish minority of religious white folks are dumb as hammers.

Depends on what you mean by "dumb as hammers" because if you have a high IQ then average people seem "dumb as hammers". The fact is that the highly religious among whites tends to be clustered around average while atheists are overrepresented among both high and low IQ groups. But, yeah, depending on what you mean "dumb as hammers" a largish minority of white christians could meet that description.

Also, white gentiles, unlike ashkenazi jews, are not the product of centuries of eugenic breeding.

Off the top of my head, I would estimate that around one in four ashkenazi Jews have a strong hatred of white gentiles.

Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 6:31 PM  

@ Telluride

Note that you didn't respond to my primary query which was why it is that married men with children are so overwhelmingly un-"Progressive". I mean if "Progressive" is really all that is good then shouldn't you best accomplish your goals if the state is the sole economic provider for children and their fathers are cut out of the equation?

Care to give it a shot?

Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 6:36 PM  

@ Telluride

When the Jews were captive in Babylon they were commanded by God to be a blessing to those among whom they resided. This command was not about helping the poor but about creating a healthy, strong society. Presumably this is a general command for Jews in other residency.

Today's Jewish voters tend to support policies that lead to social collapse, even among many Jews who don't actively hate white Gentiles. Aren't Jews who support policies that create social disorder disobeying God's commands to be a blessing to those among whom they dwell?

Anonymous VD May 03, 2013 6:55 PM  

Envy...pure and simple.

Please. That's akin to claiming men envy a rapist's success with women.

. But no, we can't for a minute contemplate the possibility that like many asian cultures, the jewish culture might value rigorous educational values and success? Classy!!

Jews don't have a culture in the civilized Western sense of the term. This should be obvious, given that their traditions are very old, tribal, and in many cases, literally pre-civilized. And Ashkenazi Jews have a lower average intelligence than Episcopalians. The main reason they are inordinately successful is that they practice extreme nepotism, have access to large quantities of cheap credit, and work very hard to prevent larger groups from doing the same.

Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 7:02 PM  

Yeah, I have a customer who is from Boston and I have known for a number of years and we've become good friends. One day I encountered an old craftsman in my industry who started ranting about Jews and I later mentioned how irritated it made me. Over the course of many previous hours of chatting with him he had never even mentioned Jews. However, he responded that a lot of Jews from the East Coast are very opportunistic, not in a good sense, and very nepotistic.

Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 7:04 PM  

work very hard to prevent larger groups from doing the same.

If correct, then they are disobeying God's explicit commands to be a blessing wherever they dwell. Such people deserve a special place in hell for their perfidy; may they burn forever in torment.

Anonymous The Jew May 03, 2013 7:06 PM  

"Jews don't have a culture in the civilized Western sense of the term. This should be obvious, given that their traditions are very old, tribal, and in many cases, literally pre-civilized."

The only way you could possibly make this statement is if you new nothing about Jews. So, we know a bit more about Vox Day now, but, thanks to him, we have no insight on the jews. Here's a hint for you to start from: Think history, faith, habits, traditions. The notion that culture must at every turn revolve around a place makes as little sense as your original statement cited above. Now, if you have nothing of value to offer, why not keep quiet, jump in the pot, and let the rabbit-eaters have their stew.

Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 7:13 PM  

@ the Jew

Consider the following comment by the porn producer Al Goldstein:

'is that we think that Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don't believe in authoritarianism.'

Now, compare that sentiment to how the ultra-orthodox conduct themselves. Is it even remotely reasonable to say that a Christian-hating porn producer share a cultural heritage with someone who is ultra-orthodox?

Anonymous Dr. J May 03, 2013 7:36 PM  

I have started work on immigration to Chile and New Zealand, hired immigration lawyers, and so forth.

@BetaMax - why Chile? I've been looking at it for some time and there are a lot of attractive aspects to the country, but having never been there, it's all heresay.

I've read and seen that Santiago is a smoggy mess, but are there other places that Gringos can settle?

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 03, 2013 7:56 PM  

"We [presumably by "we" he means Jews] don't believe in authoritarianism."

Except when we're the ones who have the authority, in which case we can be counted on 100% of the time to go all-in on authoritarianism. Even industrial-scale mass-murder and enslavement authoritarianism, to say nothing of the intellectual sideshows. See under: 20th century. See also under: blood-soaked Jews.

Blogger Cranberry May 03, 2013 8:00 PM  

@Johnny re: the smart meter

don't have one. I'm looking at technology like : this to get us through outages or rationing.

Where I live, power outages happen frequently enough to warrant having a genny and a few cans of gas on hand. Our longest stretch was 11 days but it by no means makes or beats the record of some in more rural parts of the state. I'm less concerned about lights and cooking than I am about water; without electricity, we have no well pump and hence no water. I've got a hand-pump ready to install if we need it, and can (and have) cook over our woodstove or fire-pit as the season dictates.

We're striving for self-sufficiency in all aspects. My husband is a hunter and we stock meat for the year with his pursuits. I am raising a flock of laying hens this year and have expanded the garden and hope to get a beehive or two going in a few years. I have seed vegetables, seed wheat, and seed potatoes for the time being. I figure if we can keep it all secure, we'll not only have food for ourselves but enough to use for barter or sale as needed.

I have always been attracted to the DIY-back to the land type of lifestyle. Laura Ingalls Wilder's book Farmer Boy, indeed her entire oeuvre, was more didactic than entertaining for me. The transition will be horrific for many. Me and mine might suffer but I hope not horribly and not for long.

Blogger Cranberry May 03, 2013 8:04 PM  

oops should have logged in as the other me: Amy = Cranberry.

Anonymous Anon123 May 03, 2013 9:03 PM  

Armenians are not comparable to Jews, simply because Armenians dont try to flood every host nation that welcomes them with immigrants in order to dilute the influence of the cultural majority. That and Armenians actually consider themselves white, while Jews always go out of their way to make it clear that theyre separate people altogether.

Also, the overrepresentation of Jews in positions of power and influence have more to do with ethnocentrism than intelligence. Ron Unz did a great work showcasing how Jews in American academics are overrepresented because of affirmative action and not merit. That second and third generation Jews are actually mediocre in comparison to white and Asians, and that overachieving American Jews of today are first generation immigrants from Eastern Europe.

The same case can be made for Jews in business through capitalization. They then have the audacity to decry and call for punishments against whites for discrimination, when in reality its just networking, the very same tribalistic behavior that is responsible for their success.

Anonymous damntull May 03, 2013 9:04 PM  

@The Jew:

Your last post was entirely rhetorical and rabbit-like.

Anonymous The Jew May 03, 2013 9:39 PM  

"Armenians are not comparable to Jews, simply because Armenians dont try to flood every host nation that welcomes them with immigrants in order to dilute the influence of the cultural majority"

The U.S. population is 2% Jewish. Not much of a flood, now is it.


"Also, the overrepresentation of Jews in positions of power and influence have more to do with ethnocentrism than intelligence."

Given the pogroms, holocausts, inquisitions, slander, libel and general anti-semitism the Jews have encountered from European whites over the centuries it shouldn't be difficult to understand why they've chosen to look after their own.

But in addition to that, you also have a culture than values success and education, at least more than the vast majority of other ethnic groups in American, including whites.

Jews have been nothing but a mega plus for America ever since they started emigrating to the states and we are lucky to have them. The only problem is that they represent such a small part of the population. Again, where's that "flood"? We could use it.

Anonymous Jonathan May 03, 2013 9:48 PM  

@ The Jew

The U.S. population is 2% Jewish. Not much of a flood, now is it.

Reading comprehension fail. The quote is a reference to influential Jews who advocate open borders, flooding the host nation with non-Jewish immigrants. The meaning of the sentence was really clear.

it shouldn't be difficult to understand why they've chosen to look after their own.

How is advocating a deluge of immigrants from third-world countries Jews just looking out for each other? How is advocating social policy that destroys the nuclear family Jews just looking out for each other? I fully agree that the history of the Jews fully justifies them keeping a sharp eye out for such things you list. However, advocating policies that destroy the host society is not Jews just looking out for Jews. If it were, I would fully support them.

Jews have been nothing but a mega plus for America ever since they started emigrating to the states and we are lucky to have them

On balance I would certainly agree with this. That said, Jewish political influence in the past several decades has been largely destructive. Jews are supposed to be a blessing to their host countries and large numbers of them have been turning from that command.

Anonymous paradox May 03, 2013 10:01 PM  

cheddarman May 03, 2013 3:16 PM
I wonder if there would be a market for a video game "2030: American Civil War."


Shattered Union

Anonymous E. PERLINE May 03, 2013 10:23 PM  

I agree with Nate that slavery isn't as profitable as one may think. It dates from early civilizations because they didn't have a stable money supply. Even ancient Rome should have known better.

Slavery in 1860 America was really stupid. The northern unions said "you can't free labor in a white skin if you don't free labor in a black skin." The southern states could have avoided the whole civil war by just paying wages.

In the old days, the only way individuals got rich was by pillage and plunder. Under capitalism, they get rich by supplying a product people are willing to pay for. Capitalism really is something new under the sun, if we let it flourish.

Blogger Shibes Meadow May 03, 2013 10:50 PM  

Folks: A. Man/Telluride makes up his own definitions. "Pro-freedom" to him refers to the freedom to murder a baby legally, and to the freedom to pretend that a filthy perversion of nature practiced by same-sex "couples" is equal to the sacred union of man and woman.

We have to get past this "freedom" thing. Individual liberty is not the supreme good. Lady Liberty is the pagan goddess of the Revolution. Break free of Enlightenment thinking and get yourselves back to the mindset of Christendom, where Christ the King is the only acceptable God, and where duty to Him and His law is the basis of true human freedom.

I don't want to live in a free country. I want to be a part of a Christian nation. The two are very, very different beings.

Anonymous No Shit, Sherlock May 03, 2013 11:16 PM  

The average IQ of Jewish youngsters is 111.3, while for Episcopalians it is 110.3.

Anonymous Cajun May 03, 2013 11:25 PM  

Could the higher mean of Jewish intelligence in America be because all the smart ones left during the two genocidal wars of the 20th century? That would explain why they were disproportional intelligent per their limited population and their subsequent decline as their intelligence leveled out over a few generations as they return the mean.

"The result? Almost total assimilation by French Acadians/Canadians."

As an individual of French Acadian (cajun) stock, I look forward to the right of return, when we can return once again to our French homeland. Driven away by the Jacobins we may one yet take back our land.

Anonymous Hunsdon May 03, 2013 11:49 PM  

The Jew said: Jews have been nothing but a mega plus for America ever since they started emigrating to the states and we are lucky to have them.

Hunsdon clarified: "You're lucky to have us." You're the Jew, right?

Anonymous Coq76 May 04, 2013 12:20 AM  

I have always been attracted to the DIY-back to the land type of lifestyle. Laura Ingalls Wilder's book Farmer Boy, indeed her entire oeuvre, was more didactic than entertaining for me. The transition will be horrific for many. Me and mine might suffer but I hope not horribly and not for long.

Unless you have a huge agribusiness, neither you, nor anyone else, is likely to make a living farming in post-collapse society.

Anonymous Mudz May 04, 2013 12:54 AM  

@ Bandit

For what it's worth, the most convincing eschatological prophecies that I have read was Walid Shoebat's God's War on Terror. Spoiler: It's Islam.

Interpretations for the spirit of the antichrist being Catholicism or Communism have never been very convincing to me. It's far too much of an egocentric application. The same could be argued about Shoebat's interpretation, but I see the Bible as focused on the story of Israel, not Western liberty. It's at least worth a look if that's something that really interests you.


Cheers, Bandit. I'll note it down.

Yes, it is a concern, that temptation to read all prophecy as applying to now and to us, which is why I propose Communism merely as speculation, and because it's a philosophy, not a nation, one that could conceivably have existed for a long, long time. And Communism arrayed itself directly against God, in the only stretch of time I know of, where anti-religious sentiment could grip an entire country.

I actually spend a lot of time trying to do the opposite, trying to see if prophecy better suits a past period. For example the thousand-year reign, I speculate if that actually already happened. How long was the Catholic Church around? And now look where we are, intellectually. 'Misleading all the nations' no? Just a thought. I have no personal preference.

But thanks for the recommend. This is probably the most difficult subject in the world, and I need as much help as I can get in understanding it. I can actually see the scriptures that one can relate to Islam.

@ Vic

@ Mutz & Bandit

I tend to agree with Walid Shoebat's ideas somewhat, but I see Islam as being the harlot of 18, (claiming the God of Abraham while circling a rock) who attempts to control (what the rider of any beast does) the world destroying Marxist wave that will come to hate and destroy her later on. The Marxist just haven't found their global Kim Un yet.

Kind of like what we see happening at the Marxist UN today.


In my opinion the best contemporary possibility is actually America. (Don't take it personally. Conservatives aren't the only people in it. :P))

Just read all the economy-based armageddon it talks about. Woe is the city of Babylon, who sits on many waters (people, and think immigration, but it could be U.N), the merchants will marvel at its destruction, and however the rest goes.

"Too bad, too bad - the great city, clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet, amd richly adorned with gold ornament and precious stone and pearl, because in one hour such riches have been devastated."

Revelation Chapter 17 and 18.

The alternative of course, was Rome of the seven hills.

Anonymous Carl Rove May 04, 2013 1:10 AM  

Well I heard mister Young sing about her
Well, I heard ole Neil put her down
Well, I hope Neil Young will remember
A Southern man don't need him around anyhow

Swamp People can survive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0EWmmtVRjdk

Actually, sleep tight WHITES and cool your tamales, the REDS have the situation well in hand. I just see large Democrat city slicker centers becoming the burned out decay reverting to the land hell holes like Detroit peacfully became. Makes one cry, but not too much violence, just WHITE departure. Feed the monkies like the zoo they are is the Democrat RED model and just move along. Nothing to see here. The inner city glamorized Hollywood version is the RED/WHITE control model with no shots fired. It's already done... but THEY know NOT to mess with those crazy Swamp People or they could end up as gator bait!

Anonymous Barko Ramius May 04, 2013 1:25 AM  

"Jews have been nothing but a mega plus for America ever since they started emigrating to the states and we are lucky to have them."

Oh yeah, where would America be if not for the likes of Bugsy Segal, Meyer Lansky, Gus Greenbaum, Al Goldstein, Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, Ruth Ginsberg, Saul Alinsky, Bill Ayers, etc,. Great pioneers whose contributions include, feminism, pornography, eugenics, lobotomy factories, obscene litigation, Marxism..

Pick a vice and you'll find a golden calf worshipper under the first rock.

Anonymous 11B May 04, 2013 1:59 AM  

Given the pogroms, holocausts, inquisitions, slander, libel and general anti-semitism the Jews have encountered from European whites over the centuries it shouldn't be difficult to understand why they've chosen to look after their own.

This post is not intended to be argumentative. But you do realize that many of the events you listed, which did tragically happen, did not just materialize out of thin air? Various actions by Jews towards other Europeans over the years engendered ill will.

Blogger Jack Hanson May 04, 2013 2:02 AM  

The conditions of modern America and those before the English Civil War are quite similar. You have:

- A leadership with a spending problem, beholden to foreign interests
- Intent on pushing alien values on an unwilling populace
- And demanding that the unwilling citizens accept whatever the imperial highness demands

DHS is worried about former veterans? Worry about land owning cavalry troopers in their late 30s. Cromwell was a real son of a bitch to his enemies. I don't doubt his modern incarnation is going to have any issues with burning fornicators, heretics, and communists at the stake along the interstate 'pour encourager outres'.

Anonymous Carl Rove May 04, 2013 2:07 AM  

Free birds R us... remember me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ud2NcV1oo-0
Simple duh.

Anonymous Carl Rove May 04, 2013 2:30 AM  

It's gone... gone gone...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xj4mx4cMxg

Anonymous Carl Rove May 04, 2013 2:39 AM  

Come with me... this land is our land... uh... uh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UIVe-rZBcm4

Anonymous VD May 04, 2013 4:26 AM  

Jews have been nothing but a mega plus for America ever since they started emigrating to the states and we are lucky to have them.

That's ludicrous. Their elite has turned out to be the same financial parasites they were throughout European history and they been the chief contributors in destroying the nation and bankrupting the government. It was not just a huge mistake for the USA to permit them to immigrate, it was a fatal one. It wouldn't surprise me if China and other nations, who have watched and learned from this, adopt a shoot-on-sight policy when the parasitical elite attempts to make leap from the failing USA to its next host. No amount of crying "Holocaust, Holocaust" is going to wash away the lessons taught by actually watching Jews infiltrate and destroy a nation.

When the collapse comes, the elite Jews will quite rightly be blamed, not scapegoated, for their not-insignificant role in causing it. And unfortunately, a lot of non-elite Jews will likely pay the price for the crimes of their ethnic kin. Rinse and repeat; we've all seen this show before and we know how it ends. One hopes it will be more akin to the fall of the Soviet Union than the fall of the Weimar Republic.

Blogger Jack Hanson May 04, 2013 5:06 AM  

VD,

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but have the Jews ever historically made any inroads into Asia? Most of what I've read seems to indicate that the various East Asians, especially the Chiu Chow, tend to use the same practices against Jews to great effect that they use to crowd out goyim.

Anonymous Molotov Cocktail May 04, 2013 9:03 AM  

The Jewish elite has played by the rules of alpha game. They earned everything. Thanks for playing (and losing)!

And I wouldn't talk about being a parasite, there's a well-known history there on your part.

Anonymous Anon123 can't count May 04, 2013 9:12 AM  

"Ron Unz did a great work showcasing how Jews in American academics are overrepresented because of affirmative action and not merit. That second and third generation Jews are actually mediocre in comparison to white and Asians, and that overachieving American Jews of today are first generation immigrants from Eastern Europe."

Ron Unz has been appropriately bitch-slapped.

http://andrewgelman.com/2013/02/12/that-claim-that-harvard-admissions-discriminate-in-favor-of-jews-after-checking-the-statistics-maybe-not/

Anonymous Jeigh Di May 04, 2013 10:02 AM  

Choam Nomsky May 03, 2013 9:54 AM
"Or we hope and pray we get a General Augusto Pinochet as our new king."

Paradox
"A General Francisco Franco would be nice."

Shibes Meadow
"I don't want to live in a free country. I want to be a part of a Christian nation. The two are very, very different beings."

Pray for a Nehemiah Scudder.

Anonymous DonReynolds May 04, 2013 11:18 AM  

Jack Hanson...."DHS is worried about former veterans? Worry about land owning cavalry troopers in their late 30s. Cromwell was a real son of a bitch to his enemies. I don't doubt his modern incarnation is going to have any issues with burning fornicators, heretics, and communists at the stake along the interstate 'pour encourager outres'."

Jack, you certainly get the prize today. No one has mentioned the English Civil War (or Oliver Cromwell) here in many months. I posted a picture of myself standing next to Cromwell's monument, in front of Westminster Abbey. Yes, were the devil is Cromwell when you actually need him?

And do not forget what happened AFTER Cromwell's victories and the fate of his followers. Victory in battle, even winning the civil war, does not mean you get what you fought for.

Anonymous The Jew May 04, 2013 11:34 AM  

"Jews have been nothing but a mega plus for America ever since they started emigrating to the states and we are lucky to have them.

That's ludicrous. Their elite has turned out to be the same financial parasites they were throughout European history and they been the chief contributors in destroying the nation and bankrupting the government."

Yes, indeed. All 2% of them. You blame the jews for American financial policy. Talk about ludicrous. They didn't set the policy. They've never fun the white house. They've never had a majority in congress, on the supreme court, in state government, in local government or anywhere else. What they've done is play by the rules.

Your unjustified hatred is showing. It's the same kind of hatred that led to the pogroms, holocaust, inquisition, and more that they have suffered.

Now go ahead and deny it, but the fact is every knows and recognizes your sort. They are shoved in the dark corners everywhere in America because you are the type that bring shame on this country. My understanding is that you no longer live in the states. This is good news. It means individual jews and other Americans are safer.

Anonymous Dan in Tx May 04, 2013 11:44 AM  

Yeah, never mind APAC over there who basically owns the Congress and writes foreign policy for this country. Then follow up with the obligatory mentioning of the holocaust and lame attempt at shaming. Yeah, that tactic works real well around here.

Anonymous Hunsdon May 04, 2013 1:18 PM  

The Jew said: Your unjustified hatred is showing. It's the same kind of hatred that led to the pogroms, holocaust, inquisition, and more that they have suffered.

Hunsdon replied: More with the unjustified hatred bit! Throughout history, everywhere they go, eventually Jews are hated, and it's always unjustified! My dear old granny once told me, "Hunny, if someone thinks you're an ass, maybe you're an ass, or maybe they're an ass. But if everyone thinks you're an ass, probably you're an ass."

Anonymous Jonathan May 04, 2013 1:22 PM  

Hunsdon clarified: "You're lucky to have us." You're the Jew, right?

Careful, if you get snippy we might lose all our Jews to the glorious country of Kazakhstan and then historians will be talking about the Kazakh Century in the future.

Anonymous 11B May 04, 2013 2:42 PM  

Your unjustified hatred is showing. It's the same kind of hatred that led to the pogroms, holocaust, inquisition, and more that they have suffered.

Here is a good article that was published in an Israeli newspaper called "Stalin's Jews" It's an attempt to actually acknowledge that Jews are not always the eternal victims of evil Europeans.

An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system.

Maybe some of the hatred that led to those tragic events you mentioned wasn't entirely unjustified.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter May 04, 2013 4:45 PM  

We can count on the Black Liberation Army to get things going:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22397295

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